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Old 09-02-2016, 06:30 AM
990 posts, read 741,739 times
Reputation: 1971


Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Are they nuts?
The primary purpose of the armed forces is to transfer vast sums of money to well connected oligarchs (defense is a distant secondary goal). The problem with A-10s is they are effective for defense but their unit cost of only $20 million makes them very difficult to rack up the kind of spending that the oligarchy demands.
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Old 09-02-2016, 07:00 AM
11,230 posts, read 8,370,172 times
Reputation: 20330
Did I mention I'm an F4 ejection seat mechanic? If you can't fly McDonald Douglas, fly Martin Baker.

I can appreciate the "not getting hit" philosophy. When we hear about successful ejections we look at it as a FAIL on the part of the pilot. But still, thank goodness for emergency egress.
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Old 09-02-2016, 08:46 AM
Location: USA
6,220 posts, read 5,335,827 times
Reputation: 10632
The A-10 is being used in today's combat environment, which is not against a modern army/airforce but various insurgents in the middle east. The F-35 is being built with the assumption that we will go to war with Russia/China or someone else with modern AA assets. That's not the kind of war that's being fought as of right now, and is highly unlikely.
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:17 AM
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
16,554 posts, read 7,411,475 times
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Realistically it might not be against the Russian or Chinese military but it might be against a client state (remember Vietnam?) equipped with double-digit SAMs and 4th Gen fighters... Malaysia, Venezuela, North Korea, Iran, and a number of former Soviet Central Asia republics have some high-tech stuff that would absolutely challenge the A-10. The goal of warfare is to in and win with as little loss to yourself, unconditionally. When I worked at the CAOC in Offensive Operations we had to allocate resources to protect A-10s from air threats which was an embarrassment to A-10 pilots and a drain on F-15 and -16 assets. (No fighter pilot wants to have assets used to "protect" them, they want to be offensive. As in offense in combat, we can be offensive in other ways.)
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:27 AM
Location: San Antonio
1,289 posts, read 3,336,424 times
Reputation: 917
One source to look at for this subject is https://www.jqpublicblog.com, also on Facebook. Covers it very well.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:30 PM
Location: AZ
667 posts, read 389,802 times
Reputation: 2749
The LOBBYISTS make money on new stuff, not old. The military is constantly getting stuff they do not want or need. Lobbyists call the tune in DC and Congress dances to it.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:20 AM
34,258 posts, read 41,302,530 times
Reputation: 29751
An A10 or two would have been a handy way to eliminate this pack of vermin=

Go get em=
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:35 AM
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 1,603,208 times
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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
An A10 or two would have been a handy way to eliminate this pack of vermin=
Ala Snackbar! for a Warthog.
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Old 09-06-2016, 08:40 AM
19,297 posts, read 17,426,541 times
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I used to see a pair of them flying low over SE Pa in formation and they were always the one jet I could identify by sight due to their distinctive build. They were out of Fort Indian Town Gap.
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:23 PM
6,942 posts, read 3,037,965 times
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Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
Those on CD who've seen my posts in Aviation know that I flew both the A-10 and the F-16. As a lieutenant flying the Hog life was good. The A-10 was largely ignored by the Fighter Mafia (mostly Vietnam-era senior leaders who'd flown the F-4 at one time or another and were enamored with the glamour jets, the F-15 and F-16) which was fine by us. When higher headquarters issued edicts they were generally applicable to the "gray jets" but not the Hog. We were good at the three or four missions we flew - close air support, battlefield air interdiction, armed reconnaissance, and search and rescue. No one was as good at helicopter and airlift escort as an A-10, since we weren't outrunning them too much. We were left alone.

After a stint as a forward air controller I flew the F-16, and realized what I was missing. Thrust and maneuverability, natural low-observable characteristics, radar, speed. Mission flexibility. Beyond-visual-range capability. While I enjoyed my time in the A-10, and missed that gun, the F-16 is what I went to war in (twice) and felt more confident in that jet performing the missions and tasks assigned.

The A-10's time is about done. It saddens me to say that, but it cannot survive (long) in a double-digit SAM environment. Too slow, not stealthy, underpowered, and worse, it needs F-16s or F-15s or F-22s to protect it in a non-permissive threat environment. It can't go in as its own escort the way F-16s or F-15Es or F-18s and soon the F-35 can.

A couple of Air Force Chiefs of Staff have been A-10 pilots. The attitude and "bias" may appear to be anti-Hog but there is a serious reality that outside of no-threat areas such as Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq the Hog is vulnerable. We were kidding ourselves in the Fulda Gap scenario of Central Europe.
It is questionable even if the F22's and F15's can stand up against the buke or the SA-400/500 (or potential ground based energy weapons. If relations with Russia or Russia's close allies starts to deteriorate further I would not want to be a fighter pilot in those sorts of environments, it wont be fun.

Its one thing to fight 3rd worlders in the desert using 1960's cold war tech and a completely other thing fighting someone that knows what they are doing. The A10 would get smoked and Russian armor has gotten so good that there is a chance their tanks could resist the gattlin gun then fire off a buke from their tanks close support vehicals (which are more armored than the tanks themselves), then the A10 pilot becomes a POW.

Ground based energy weapons could be a game changer and if they are powerful enough could provide complete area denial to anything in the air. If they can make them small enough and mobile (truck mounted) then you wont know where they are until you are shot down and even then you may not know where it was since they can fire line of sight without radar if they wanted too. Even if they had active radar on an energy weapon could shoot down any air to surface missle bomb or projectile other than maybe a gattlin gun but you wont get close enough to use it. I suppose the F22 could use guns but the radar would still pick you up just would not get a proper bead and then just turn the radar off, move and use line of sight, if weather is bad then it will just be a stale mate. No stealth is perfect there is always forward reflected radio waves and I am sure they are working on a way to lock on to F22's, I know I would be if I were them.

From what I have read and seen most of Russias stuff is mobile so you wont gain much advantage flying in bad weather because you will be just as blind as them and any intell you had from the day before wont be valid when everything moves around again. The pilot can always hope that some idiot leaves his radar on I suppose lol.

Last edited by pittsflyer; 09-08-2016 at 06:41 PM..
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