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Old 01-27-2017, 01:07 AM
 
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Was repeling boarders or boarding party training ever a big part of US Navy training? What about shore landing party training?

During the age of sail, or the galleys, the primary mode of fighting would be to fire guns, and then board the ship and fight H2H right? Like on Black Sails. Or was it just all guns? What was the training like then, and what was the evolution of that going into modern times?

Was there ever the thinking that sometimes the ship and sailors may need to dock or come ashore like on a beach, away from home turf and therefore require precaution? I was watching a vid about the WW1 German frigate Emden. Apparently they separated from their main fleet, and had no home ports. Obviously they can only stay on ocean for a certain amount of time. Eventually they had to dock and come ashore on territory not their own with the enemy at their heel.

Also I have been seeing vids of the Navy's Riverine Force. How long has that been around? Also do they have equivalent for coastal waters? If those boats are going upstream, then why not just have the army patrol the rivers? They can be taught to operate the boats?
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:14 AM
 
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Ever? Certainly. It was common to use the ship's company as a shore landing party up into about 1930 at least.

The USN had a huge riverine force during the American Civil War. There was a large resurgence in riverine forces in Viet Nam, and they have a mission now. There have been riverine forces in all conflicts going back to the founding of the country. Their numbers and utilization is dependent on geography and scope of conflict.

Can the army be trained to operate the boats? Sure, but why should they? I'm not sure it is a mission they want to take on, and it is a mission the navy doesn't want to give up. There's a lot of politics involved in something like this. It would also be a very limiting career field.

Most people don't know that the army maintains and operates a large fleet of logistical support vessels.
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
Ever? Certainly. It was common to use the ship's company as a shore landing party up into about 1930 at least.

The USN had a huge riverine force during the American Civil War. There was a large resurgence in riverine forces in Viet Nam, and they have a mission now. There have been riverine forces in all conflicts going back to the founding of the country. Their numbers and utilization is dependent on geography and scope of conflict.

Can the army be trained to operate the boats? Sure, but why should they? I'm not sure it is a mission they want to take on, and it is a mission the navy doesn't want to give up. There's a lot of politics involved in something like this. It would also be a very limiting career field.

Most people don't know that the army maintains and operates a large fleet of logistical support vessels.
If they are going that far upstream on the boats, then it really is more about land than about the sea. That is why I think the army should just get their own boats.

Does the US Navy still teach tactics for coming to shore in small groups, or seizure of other boats or even repelling boarders?
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
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In the submarine service we never practiced landing party but we did practice repel borders but not that often as not a major issue. Pull the cork and drown them..LOL
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
If they are going that far upstream on the boats, then it really is more about land than about the sea. That is why I think the army should just get their own boats.

Does the US Navy still teach tactics for coming to shore in small groups, or seizure of other boats or even repelling boarders?
I don't know what to tell you other than that the military disagrees with you.

The navy and coast guard still operate boarding parties, so I imagine the answer to your question is a "yes." That said, not everyone on a ship is trained for that type of work. Ships also have marine contingents for shipboard security.
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:59 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
.............Also I have been seeing vids of the Navy's Riverine Force. How long has that been around? Also do they have equivalent for coastal waters? If those boats are going upstream, then why not just have the army patrol the rivers? They can be taught to operate the boats?
I served with the riverine force in 1967-68. I was issued a black beret and a Junk Force pin to wear on it.
JFK authorized the black beret, so that gives it a date of some sort.

The Brown Water Navy, as we called ourselves, was not very well trained. We more or less trained each other, and no, there was no "repel boarders" training. We were just a bunch of sailors doing absolutely the best we could.

Our basic job was to board and inspect junks, but we always secured them alongside us first, so there was no shooting our way in or anything like that. We just stepped aboard as the man with the 50 Cal on the bridge watched over us.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:55 PM
 
10,197 posts, read 9,982,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Was repeling boarders or boarding party training ever a big part of US Navy training? What about shore landing party training?
We did repel borders training, the scenario was usually about protesters trying to get on board. I know that the US Navy does train for boarding ships, but I never been a part of this. The Coast Guard does this training also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
During the age of sail, or the galleys, the primary mode of fighting would be to fire guns, and then board the ship and fight H2H right? Like on Black Sails. Or was it just all guns? What was the training like then, and what was the evolution of that going into modern times?
I have no idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Was there ever the thinking that sometimes the ship and sailors may need to dock or come ashore like on a beach, away from home turf and therefore require precaution? I was watching a vid about the WW1 German frigate Emden. Apparently they separated from their main fleet, and had no home ports. Obviously they can only stay on ocean for a certain amount of time. Eventually they had to dock and come ashore on territory not their own with the enemy at their heel.
I doubt this would ever be a situation; I think the Navy rather scuttle a ship than have it dock somewhere and potentially lose it to hostile forces. Plus most ships need support to dock, they just cannot roll on up and tie itself up. I think reality is that if some situation ever developed like this, the Navy would tow the thing or the enemy would sink it, but not voluntarily pull into port.

Now, for less hostile nations, but not allies, like Russia for example, if our ship was in trouble, I am more than positive there would be no issue for pulling into a Russian port. Vice versa, in that Russian ships would pull into a US port if there was an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Also I have been seeing vids of the Navy's Riverine Force. How long has that been around? Also do they have equivalent for coastal waters? If those boats are going upstream, then why not just have the army patrol the rivers? They can be taught to operate the boats?
cannot speak for the riverine force from decades ago, but I know there was a resurgence in the 2000's, including making a "riverine warfare qualification" for enlisted. The Army does not do this because the military leaders have determined this falls under the Navy's area, plus the Navy has the training and logistical support in place, and the skills are transferable throughout the Navy (meaning manning/skill development would be much less of an issue).
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
If they are going that far upstream on the boats, then it really is more about land than about the sea. That is why I think the army should just get their own boats.
It is not like the Army is incapable of it, it is that the military leaders decided this is not an area of responsibility for them. The Navy has all the logistics and training in place, it is not a large jump for the Navy to do this. For the Army however, it would be a large jump for them to establish such a thing.

You are looking at it from a land versus sea thing, it has little to do with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Does the US Navy still teach tactics for coming to shore in small groups, or seizure of other boats or even repelling boarders?
Well, the Navy has the SEALs, and they are trained to come onto shore in small groups and to seize ships. We have less skilled sailors that do boarding parties and repel boarders.

Also, the Marines are part of the Navy...
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:45 AM
 
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In the Navy, you are trained for the type of duty you will be doing. Some that duties will be boarding and searching other boats, will be trained to do so, and there is no other reason to train other sailors for that. And as mentioned, Marines are part of the Navy, and may be involved in such duties. The Navy runs the boat, and the Marines do the boarding in those cases. Each doing the jobs they are trained to do.

The movies of pulling a ship beside the other ship and a boarding party moves onto the other ship and try to take it over with flashing swords, are not what is happening in a modern military situation. Makes good action movies however.
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Old 01-28-2017, 01:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
I don't know what to tell you other than that the military disagrees with you.

The navy and coast guard still operate boarding parties, so I imagine the answer to your question is a "yes." That said, not everyone on a ship is trained for that type of work. Ships also have marine contingents for shipboard security.
Does every ship have marines?
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