U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-28-2017, 06:05 PM
 
1 posts, read 611 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

I want to share something that happened to my son yesterday and I'm curious if this has happened to others. What if anything do you think I should do?

We live in a small town. Nearest recruiting office is 1.5 hrs away. He had appt. to go to a city and take practice test. Then recruiter told him they were not going to do that. Then he was told he would go take the test and would be in touch to give him the details and location and to meet on Feb. 27th at 9:45. It was not until time to board that but that my son knew where he was going. The distance was 2.5 hrs away. He had his overnight bag with him because he was told he would be put in hotel overnight along with others.

At about 6:15 pm I received a call from my son again 2.5 hrs away asking if I could come get him. I asked what happened. He said the recruiter told him he didn't score high enough and the Air Force will not pay your hotel and you will need to find a ride home to let him know when he does. Needless to say I was in shock that they would just humiliate and embarrass him like that and more. I was thinking how UN American that is to do to one of our own. My son told him he had a ride. He said I will call you back and to make sure someone did come pick you up. That call never happened! I cannot believe that recruiter would want a recruit to call family that far away and to say you need to come get me because they are leaving me here with no room or transportation back home.

I don't know why my son didn't score well. He is a freshman at a local university and made great grades in high school. We even get a discount on auto insurance after providing proof of his grades. Maybe nervous!

I know one retired officer of Air Force who has told me what to do. I just want to know your thought and opinions.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-28-2017, 06:15 PM
 
9,698 posts, read 9,466,332 times
Reputation: 12970
I have no advice to give, other than contacting the specific branch and complaining and seeing if the recruiter followed proper protocol.

As to why he score low on the test; many factors because the test has many different testing methods in it. It does not really matter the grades in school, and is not generally a reflection of how well someone will do. The test is sort of like say an IQ or LSAT, whereas you can practice to improve a little, but that is about it because it measures your abilities more so than anything else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2017, 08:40 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,791 posts, read 7,803,194 times
Reputation: 3675
I supervise AF Recruiters and I'd be pretty upset if one of my recruiters acted this way. However, he is correct that they won't let him stay in the hotel if he fails the ASVAB. But, the recruiter should have given him a practice test. Then, he would have known not to send him for the actual test.

It's possible the practice test was broken, as this happens often in my offices.

It's also possible the recruiter couldn't give him a ride for a variety of factors like conflicting appointments, family emergency, etc. Recruiters are no required to provide any transportation for applicants. However, it's standard practice to provide it or to ensure the applicant has it.

The recruiter did not violate any actual rules, but this is still not good practice, and I'd still be really upset if it was one of my recruiters.

I'm sorry you had this bad experience. Please remember this is not indicative of how the Air Force works or what the majority of people in the Air Force act like.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2017, 08:48 AM
 
14,311 posts, read 10,040,491 times
Reputation: 34383
Your son should have stood up to the recruiter and made him pay his way back home. The recruiter can authorize that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: KC, MO
699 posts, read 508,233 times
Reputation: 579
Exclamation Recruiter Unprofessional

Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech View Post
Your son should have stood up to the recruiter and made him pay his way back home. The recruiter can authorize that.

LOL !

"...stood up to the recruiter..."

That's a good one. Good luck with that!



Paul
RVN '70 - '71
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: KC, MO
699 posts, read 508,233 times
Reputation: 579
Exclamation Recruiter Unprofessional

Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmen4u View Post
I want to share something that happened to my son yesterday and I'm curious if this has happened to others. What if anything do you think I should do?

He had appt. to go to a city and take practice test. Then recruiter told him they were not going to do that. Then he was told he would go take the test and would be in touch to give him the details and location and to meet on Feb. 27th at 9:45.

He said the recruiter told him he didn't score high enough and the Air Force will not pay your hotel and you will need to find a ride home to let him know when he does.

I don't know why my son didn't score well. He is a freshman at a local university and made great grades in high school. We even get a discount on auto insurance after providing proof of his grades. Maybe nervous!

I know one retired officer of Air Force who has told me what to do. I just want to know your thought and opinions.

Thanks!
I served in the Army during Vietnam. I had to take the same test again when I later in '87 joined the National Guard.

Since you say your son "....made great grades in high school..." and I assume that means he got A's and B's, then there is no logical reason why he could have flunked the ASVAB or whatever it is called nowadays.

It is necessary to get 'high' scores for certain jobs but most everyone else gets put into one job or another, even with a 'low' score.

The Navy generally only takes the best of the average or better but again, if your son is an A or B student, there is something here that does not track about all this.

Military recruiters have rank and report to a higher ranking NCO. Call that recruiter, ask nicely for the name, rank and phone number of the NCO in charge (NCOIC) of the recruiting station and see if you can better information to explain what actually happened.


A and B students don't usually flunk the ASVAB.


Also, I am not up on this but it is possible he may be able to retake the test in six months to a year. Find out about this.

Oh, and if the recruiter gets snotty with you, call the Navy and explain what you want to know and who you want to speak to about this. Start as high as you want, they will knock you down the ladder until you are in touch with an appropriate person.


Good Luck!



Paul.............


...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2017, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,180 posts, read 6,457,722 times
Reputation: 5308
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
I supervise AF Recruiters and I'd be pretty upset if one of my recruiters acted this way. However, he is correct that they won't let him stay in the hotel if he fails the ASVAB. But, the recruiter should have given him a practice test. Then, he would have known not to send him for the actual test.

It's possible the practice test was broken, as this happens often in my offices.

It's also possible the recruiter couldn't give him a ride for a variety of factors like conflicting appointments, family emergency, etc. Recruiters are no required to provide any transportation for applicants. However, it's standard practice to provide it or to ensure the applicant has it.

The recruiter did not violate any actual rules, but this is still not good practice, and I'd still be really upset if it was one of my recruiters.

I'm sorry you had this bad experience. Please remember this is not indicative of how the Air Force works or what the majority of people in the Air Force act like.
This is not correct...if the Recruiter provided transportation to the testing site 2.5 hours away the recruiter is obligated to get the applicant safely back to were he was transported from. This is unless arrangements were made in advance that the applicant was providing their own transportation home.

I had hundreds of applicants that failed the ASVAB or medical portion of the enlistment process over my career. I would have never thought to leave them stranded and I drove them (or got them a bus ticket) for the return 2.5 hour trip. If the government provided transportation to the enlistment location they are obligated to provide return transportation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2017, 10:14 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,791 posts, read 7,803,194 times
Reputation: 3675
LBTRS, I reread the original post, and I do agree with you that the recruiter was wrong. I said I'd be very upset if my recruiter did something like that.

However, there is no law or regulation in the Air Force that states recruiters have to provide transportation. There just is not. They're not LEGALLY obligated, even if it is the right and ethical thing to do.

In fact, the recruiter may not have been able to legally pick the applicant up. For example, we are not allowed to drive more than 350 miles a day due to safety reason. If the round trip was over 175 miles, the recruiter might have gone home, and planned to come back the NEXT day. This would then mean the recruiter could not legally come pick him back up due to exceeding daily mileage limits. If it was 2.5 hours away, that's a 5 hour round trip. If the recruiter drove 5 hours to take him up there in the morning, and then worked all day, and then drove another 5 hours to get the applicant, this would have been extremely illegal, and would have put both their lives at risk due to the recruiter's exhaustion. An accident in those circumstances could send the recruiter to jail because of exceeding mileage limits.

Additionally, we can't buy bus tickets in areas where there isn't a contracted bus. Neither me nor my recruiters have any way on Earth to legally buy a bus ticket for some areas. We can't use our own money as that is expressly prohibited, and government money can only be spent on buses that are contracted and approved after meeting certain criteria. There may be some offices and MEPS that have buses, and others that do not because of not having any approved carriers. For example, you can't use a bus or a shuttle that doesn't go door to door, so all Greyhound is out, as there are generally not Greyhound bus stops at MEPS or recruiting offices. Metro and City buses aren't going to have routes that travel as far as the OP is describing. There generally has to be a chartered or private bus or van line. Same goes for Taxis. There is no legal way to pay for a taxi. Bureaucracy and regulations have red-taped buses and taxis into not being usable. Locally we have a metro train, and we're not even allowed to buy tickets on that because it does not go door to door.

There may be more to this story.

I concur that the recruiters behavior was unacceptable and not OK, but there may have been legalities. Driving over 350 miles in a day=illegal. Buying a bus ticket=possibly not legal or there may not have been any buses. Maybe it was rural. I have a friend that recruits in Montana. There are no buses that go the hundreds of miles between his office and the one MEPS in the state. Telling a kid to ask his mom to pick him up=totally legal.

I had this happen 2x in a geographically separated MEPS where applicants failed the test when scheduled for the hotel and my recruiters could not find a legal way to pick them up. Parents were unable to. In those cases, we were able to get special permission to have the applicants stay in the hotel as an exception to policy.

I'm sure that if the applicant would have called the recruiter back and said no one could pick him up, some sort of arrangements like a hotel stay would have been made. I can assure you that the applicant would not have been asked to sleep on the sidewalk. If a parent had been unable to come, I imagine they would have made an exception to stay in the hotel. In my opinion, this should have been offered, and then he should have been taken home with the rest of the applicants at the end of the next day. The recruiter might not have known it was possible to do this, as generally, they are absolutely not allowed to stay if they have failed the ASVAB.

Not an ideal situation at all, and as a mom, I'd be extremely mad. As a supervisor, I'd be ripping my recruiter a new one. But, there still wasn't anything illegal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2017, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,180 posts, read 6,457,722 times
Reputation: 5308
dmarie123,

It wouldn't be an Air Force regulation that would cover this, it would be a MEPCOM regulation. While I've been retired for 5 years I'm sure MEPCOM regulations stated back then that if government provided transportation was used to transport the applicant to the location they had to provide transportation back "home". Since staying overnight in a hotel was mentioned I'm assuming the applicant was on the schedule to take the ASVAB the night before and process at MEPS the following day. In this case MEPCOM policies would cover the applicants processing at MEPS.

To the OP...I would contact the recruiters Flight Chief and discuss the issue with them. This is definitely unacceptable and that person should be made aware of it. Unfortunately, there are some in Recruiting Leadership that won't care and could have been the one that directed the Recruiter to leave your son to figure out how to get home himself.

Next time I would recommend you get involved and make sure transportation is arranged for both directions.

Last edited by LBTRS; 03-14-2017 at 10:39 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2017, 07:25 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,791 posts, read 7,803,194 times
Reputation: 3675
From MEPCOM, this is the only thing I have ever seen in regards to applicant transportation- "a. Transportation from the incoming transportation terminal (i.e., bus, train, and airport) to the contract hotel, transportation from the MEPS to the contract hotel for applicants that are taking the ASVAB Test and transportation from the hotel to the MEPS in the morning, wi ll be part of the MLT contract and will be included in the single item cost per applicant, which is charged to the rec ruiting services."

Additionally, here is the official list of the only buses we are allowed to use. If the MEPS or home are not in a location where the buses don't run, there is no legal way to purchase a bus ticket. http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/Doc...eementPOCs.pdf. As you can see, some states only have 1 or 2 approved buses in the entire state.

Again, I'm not saying what the recruiter did was the best thing, but it's possible he literally could not pick the applicant up. Air Force regulations may have prohibited it.

The recruiter should have offered to push for an exception so the applicant could stay in the hotel. I agree that the OP should contact supervision and make them aware.

It's also possible the scenario was more like this:
Recruiter: "Can you see if your mom can pick you up, because I can't. If she can't, let me know and we'll figure something out." and the applicant didn't relay the message to mom exactly the right way, and then called the recruiter back and said his mom could pick him up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $99,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top