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Old 05-01-2017, 10:09 PM
 
6,888 posts, read 5,599,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dillionmt View Post
Good grief, we have a sub, deployed THAADs and have a aircraft battle group that we have broadcast far and wide, and asking a question about leave of a unified command is OPSEC? Please, in what alternative universe does that reveal anything at all?

Thanks for the comment though.
Giving wrong information on what is happening, is also military strategy. It is to hide what is really going to happen. They may leak they are going to do one thing, and as the enemy is distracted do something all together different at a different location.

Spreading information as you did, can undo planning and actions. They want the enemy to know somethings, and it may be accurate or done to mislead. Get them to guard one location, when the attack is on another. But if they can get a few items like you were passing on, and it is often easy for the enemy to know their true plans.

WWII and Korea as an example, they said loose lips shrink Ships. Meaning it sometimes takes very little to be reveled to completely damage certain actions, and risk peoples lives.

I was air terminal chief, at a large navy air transport squadron squadron in Hawaii. Passengers, cargo and flight attendants came under me, with 24 hours on and 24 hours off shifts. I had been at a similar job stateside where I had to be able to supervise loading from trucks to large airplanes materials to be sent overseas. I had to personally stand at the door of the plane, and verify the package on the manifest by lot number, package size, and the name of what the contents were. The trucks would come in under military guard, and Marine guards would be there to guard the cargo before and after loading on the planes. I could tell no one, what I knew. The Captain over our squadron and myself were the only ones that knew what was going aboard the planes.

When I was being cleared for Top Secret papers, my mother called me at the base frantic with worry. There were FBI and Naval Intelligence Officers talking to my parents and everyone from my former teachers and others to find out if I was someone that could be trusted with top secret documents and keep my mouth shut. All she could figure was I had done something terrible and they were getting read to arrest me. I told her it was to get me cleared for certain duties, and they just had to find if I was trustworthy. She was satisfied with that.

In Hawaii, a large Air Force Cargo plane came through. When it was parked, Marine guards with loaded rifles and bayonets were all around it, one arms length apart. We were told, the manifest would come to us in about 3 days, but until then it was classified top secret, and we did not even log the plane in. They had a problem. They needed someone that knew how to turn on the coffee system as they needed to get it working again, as they had to keep awake to get to the US East Coast. But it had to be someone with top secret clearance they could check. The skipper and I were the only one with that clearance and the skipper did not even know about me, as part of my orders had a sealed with wax seal my clearance papers.

I stepped up and told the skipper I held top secret clearance and they got my special file out of his safe and opened it to find I was. I went aboard that plane, and taught them what to do. All I could see was there was an airplane with the wings and tail off, which were strapped to the sides, and the plane in the middle and covered. Everyone wanted to know what it was, but I could not tell.

3 days later the manifest came though for 1 enemy plane, and the security had been lifted. If was a fighter plane (The MiG that the U.S.A, had told the Korean pilots if they could deliver us one, they would get 1 million dollars and US Citizenship for the plane. One had delivered it and it was shipped to USA.

If the enemy had known what was on that plane, they would have done everything in their power to have shot it down. For security reasons it was moved as Top Secret, with as few people as needed to know knowing what was on that plane. Today that enemy plane is at a military play park for military families children last I heard.

If someone that heard of it from a family member had been talking about it, it very probably would not have gotten to the USA. The enemy would have done everything in their power to stop it getting here.

What you don't understand, when we make a big deal about moving military strength to one location, it is done for a reason. It is placing them on notice, if they do what they look like they are preparing for, there will be deep consequences if they do.

They are not going to tell them a lot of other things, including there are military units standing by with all leaves cancelled, to be moved for battle if needed. The secret of military success is not revealing what is going to happen. Tell the enemy what you want them to believe, and hide what you don't want them to know from them. Things are very touchy at this time, and there is a lot of preparation going on, and only very few people with the need to know will know what is going on.

When I was in Alameda and Honolulu, I had some very big people go through my terminal. High military officers and not all were Americans. Some specialized cargo. Senators and Congressmen, who did not announce they were going over to get some answers. The enemy would have loved to know we were moving some of them, and if possible shoot down the plane.

Blasting out what you have done over the biggest way to spread information ever invented, is dangerous and if a lot more people do it so the enemy can join a few different piece of information to prepare to use the information to their advantage they will.

 
Old 05-01-2017, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,180 posts, read 6,454,347 times
Reputation: 5308
Having a top secret clearance isn't classified...why in gods name would you have a wax seal on your "clearance papers", why would the skipper have your personnel file in his safe, why would he not know what was on the papers he had in his safe? Kind of defeats the purpose of having a clearance if no one knows you have it. So many questions in that post oldtrader.

I had a TS SCI clearance while I was on active duty and everyone knew it, I had no special file, no wax seal, nothing kept in the skippers safe, etc. I had an ID that identified me as having that clearance that hung off my uniform so I could enter into all the TS SCI places and aircraft I needed to for my job.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 12:51 AM
 
6,888 posts, read 5,599,835 times
Reputation: 14024
There was no reason for it to be known I had the top secret clearance so it was decided by people above my pay grade it would be placed in an envelope and sealed with instructions to only be opened at my request if the need come up for it. That level of clearance is not something you go around bragging about. Being able to handle the level of papers I was permitted to read and use, is not something that needs to be known by the other crew members. It makes a lot less curiosity when people do not know of it, and them trying to find what you have it for.

A few months later, the air terminal chief was being retired in my old squadron and I went back to the duties where every few months we had those special flights, and it was put back into use.`

There is a great difference between the clearance you had and what I had and the purposes for them.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 05:52 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 1,213,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
There was no reason for it to be known I had the top secret clearance so it was decided by people above my pay grade it would be placed in an envelope and sealed with instructions to only be opened at my request if the need come up for it. That level of clearance is not something you go around bragging about. Being able to handle the level of papers I was permitted to read and use, is not something that needs to be known by the other crew members. It makes a lot less curiosity when people do not know of it, and them trying to find what you have it for.

A few months later, the air terminal chief was being retired in my old squadron and I went back to the duties where every few months we had those special flights, and it was put back into use.`

There is a great difference between the clearance you had and what I had and the purposes for them.



Thank you for your service.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 07:19 AM
 
504 posts, read 119,345 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
There was no reason for it to be known I had the top secret clearance so it was decided by people above my pay grade it would be placed in an envelope and sealed with instructions to only be opened at my request if the need come up for it. That level of clearance is not something you go around bragging about. Being able to handle the level of papers I was permitted to read and use, is not something that needs to be known by the other crew members. It makes a lot less curiosity when people do not know of it, and them trying to find what you have it for.

A few months later, the air terminal chief was being retired in my old squadron and I went back to the duties where every few months we had those special flights, and it was put back into use.`

There is a great difference between the clearance you had and what I had and the purposes for them.
Sometimes this talk about security clearances are, well, a bit of a joke. My son (not my step son who this thread is about) works for a contractor and required to have a specific security clearance for the IT work he is an expert at. His work entailed being at the Pentagon, some foreign nation's military HQs, as well as some specific bases. No, I have no idea exactly what it was he was doing, but knowing his expertise, I can guess. He told me of how he would be escorted to server rooms where he needed to be by armed military, and then commented, "They don't have a clue of what I was doing or how I was doing it, or what I needed to do, but I guess they had a protocol".

Yes, he had the clearance, but no one who he interacted knew what he was doing.

So, just asking about a canceled leave hardly falls into the area you are discussing, does it?
 
Old 05-02-2017, 07:22 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
22,175 posts, read 32,925,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dillionmt View Post
So, just asking about a canceled leave hardly falls into the area you are discussing, does it?
No. It does not...
 
Old 05-02-2017, 08:01 AM
 
Location: NoVA
12,614 posts, read 7,555,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybug07 View Post
Here's the crazy part about the military. They will can at any point in time, for any reason suspend leaves, cancel leaves etc. It may not be for what is currently going on it could be that someone screwed up and the whole unit is feeling the after effects.

I can guarantee you that if something goes down in Korea, they would be sending military families out of S. Korea for their safety. Just like if something was going to go down with Japan, then they would not be families over there.
Yep, if a military spouse and kids who had been living overseas suddenly shows up at your door you know crap is getting ready to start hitting the fan. Once upon a time the instructions were that said spouse could not tell anyone she was coming either, she literally just showed up at Mom's or the in-law's door, not sure if that's changed or not.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:32 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 1,213,512 times
Reputation: 1661
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillionmt View Post

So, just asking about a canceled leave hardly falls into the area you are discussing, does it?
Have you talked to your step son since all this went down,has anything changed?
 
Old 05-02-2017, 10:18 AM
 
504 posts, read 119,345 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
Have you talked to your step son since all this went down,has anything changed?
Not yet, we have heard nothing new.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 01:04 PM
 
8,602 posts, read 10,794,860 times
Reputation: 12357
Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Stone View Post
......"a lot of it is budgetary"...


Why would "budgetary" issues affect granting servicemen leave ?


Amazing that during the Vietnam War no one in our Naval Air squadron had trouble getting leave as long as you had it on the books earned.
That's NOT what she said.

Read it AGAIN. Without the bias.
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