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Old 05-02-2017, 01:40 PM
 
7,288 posts, read 6,112,626 times
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillionmt View Post

So, just asking about a canceled leave hardly falls into the area you are discussing, does it?
Yes it may be a lot more important than you think. In the country was at war, by your step son giving you as much information as he did, could bring him up on charges for a court martial. As mentioned above, families that were returned home when the unit was being activated in war time, could not even let their families know they were on the way home, they just showed up.

When a military unit is standing by for deployment if needed, that is not to be broadcast to the enemy. There are spies in this country looking for anything that would help their side, just as we have spies in other country doing the same thing.
We will tell them in headlines something is going to be done such as moving a fleet into a certain position. That is telling them if they do certain things we will be in position to bring the might of our military to them. But a lot of other things are happening that we don't want them to know, such as certain units are going to be moved into position, or others are standing by ready to go to war.

Your telling the world about your step sons unit cancelling all leaves, tells the enemy that we are preparing to move fast if they do something. They know that a unit is standing by for rapid deployment if needed. They then will look at getting some more information from people like you that are innocently broadcasting it to the world, and they can figure out what units, types of units and how many units are being prepared for deployment.

Before D-Day (the attack on the beach in WWII), they had been sending signals they were going to go ashore another place, which forced the enemy to reduce the force at where they were going ashore, to protect both places. It was a very bloody operation and lots of men died. It would have been a lot worse, if they had not moved a lot of the defense troops to another location.

Right now, this country may soon be at war. They are announcing they have sent ships to a certain area, warning the enemy to not do anything. At the same time with your son's unit suddenly having all leaves cancelled, and the enemy getting that much information now know to look other places, for more information.

Just think how many less people would have died at Pearl Harbor if we had had any inkling the Japanese were on the way to attack. The Japanese had been able to keep us from finding out they had sent a large fleet, to put Pearl Harbor and our military facilities out of commission. We had no inkling, until the planes were dropping bombs and shooting up the military facilities. When stationed in Hawaii, I got to know a number of people that had been there that day, both military and civilian. Some of those stories they had lived through, were mind boggling.

After that, we have had spies looking into what is going on with other countries to keep it from happening again. And the other countries including those that would like to destroy our country, have spies out there looking for any information that can give them an advantage.

You still do not understand, your blasting out to the entire world that they are cancelling leaves for some military units, lets them know to look for more information. Lets them somewhat know for sure, our military is planning on calling up units for immediate deployment if needed.

I was the Air Terminal Chief, in charge of all passengers, and cargo flying out from our squadron. I sent a lot of young men to war, and when they returned we brought some of them back in coffins. We moved some of the high military officers, and the enemy would have loved to had advance notice they would be aboard a certain plane. If they had that information, and they could, they would have attempted to shoot down that plane when certain ones traveled. A large single unarmed plane flying hundreds of miles from land makes an easy target. I would be notified they were coming a few hours early. They would be there before the buses with the other passengers arrived. We held them in a VIP room out of sight of the other passengers. We would slip them out and to the planes, and then bring out the other passengers. The fact that they were going to be a board a certain plane, is very secret classified information.

What you don't understand, is that even small dabs of information you were telling people about, can be extremely important information that is not to be spread around when a country is on stand by to be ready to go to war. And that is exactly where this country stands. We may be going to war soon, and we may not.

 
Old 05-02-2017, 02:02 PM
 
8,550 posts, read 5,731,077 times
Reputation: 14495
It would be better for everyone if you didn't broadcast his business on a public forum. There are Public Relations people attached to his command who can give you any information you need to know. Loose lips and all that...

eta-just read the above post and it's dead on.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 02:30 PM
 
10,270 posts, read 10,137,537 times
Reputation: 13607
Goodness people, there is absolutely nothing classified, secret, whatever, about someone saying their leave is canceled/delayed. It happens all of the time, it happened to me five times (if I recall correctly) during my career, it is nothing interesting, debatable, controversial...nothing. It is just simple canceled leave.

It can happen for numerous reasons. A ship could have broke down and a person has to deploy early. A training team could be coming to town ahead of schedule. An inspection team could be coming and they want people there for whatever. A person could have had a medical emergency and they need people to cover shifts.

Some of you are going way, way over board with this. If the command really did not want anyone to say anything, they would have directly stated "do not tell anyone your leave is cancelled", though it would be pretty stupid thing to do considering people would be expecting, thus if the service person would not come, it is obvious the leave was cancelled.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,318 posts, read 6,923,784 times
Reputation: 5583
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Goodness people, there is absolutely nothing classified, secret, whatever, about someone saying their leave is canceled/delayed. It happens all of the time, it happened to me five times (if I recall correctly) during my career, it is nothing interesting, debatable, controversial...nothing. It is just simple canceled leave.

It can happen for numerous reasons. A ship could have broke down and a person has to deploy early. A training team could be coming to town ahead of schedule. An inspection team could be coming and they want people there for whatever. A person could have had a medical emergency and they need people to cover shifts.

Some of you are going way, way over board with this. If the command really did not want anyone to say anything, they would have directly stated "do not tell anyone your leave is cancelled", though it would be pretty stupid thing to do considering people would be expecting, thus if the service person would not come, it is obvious the leave was cancelled.
This, exactly. Leave is an administrative procedure and there is nothing classified about it. Leave can be canceled for dozens of reasons and an anonymous family member asking a general question about leave being canceled isn't breaking any rules. Heck, we don't even know what unit in "Pacific Command", he could be a recruiter for all we know somewhere in the pacific command coverage area.

Way too much cloak and dagger going on in this thread.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 06:42 PM
 
8,550 posts, read 5,731,077 times
Reputation: 14495
I'm guessing those of you who are dismissing the importance of discretion about these "small, insignificant" facts do not have to do annual computer based training that emphasizes the importance.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 09:52 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN
301 posts, read 126,142 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
I'm guessing those of you who are dismissing the importance of discretion about these "small, insignificant" facts do not have to do annual computer based training that emphasizes the importance.
^^^Agree. Post #39 states that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TowBar View Post
In the Air Force it is what we used to call Essential Elements of Friendly Information (EEFIs). It's not called the same thing today, but it is still part of OPSEC training. It means that many unseemingly harmless bits of information can be put together by the enemy to build a "bigger picture" of what the military is doing. Cancelled leaves is one example that was provided in the last OPSEC training briefing that I attended.
I'm not sure, but it seems as though having a discussion on social media about WHY leave is canceled would be a violation of "passing along rumors", #14 on the list.

OPSEC "rules" for forums, blogs or chat- OSPA
 
Old 05-02-2017, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,318 posts, read 6,923,784 times
Reputation: 5583
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
I'm guessing those of you who are dismissing the importance of discretion about these "small, insignificant" facts do not have to do annual computer based training that emphasizes the importance.
There are no "FACTS" let alone insignificant facts.

There was nothing specific in the OP's post that makes this opsec. We don't know the service, we don't know the unit, we don't know the person, we don't know the reason, we don't know who is asking, we don't know what kind of leave, we don't know if anyone's leave was actually canceled, we don't know if this is just a story to cover the person not wanting to come home, we're not discussing mass cancellations, etc. The only thing we do know is some anonymous person asked about some unknown persons possible canceled leave without any other details.

There was no violation of OPSEC in the OP's post so quit beating them up about it.
 
Old 05-02-2017, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Middle America
32,729 posts, read 34,178,382 times
Reputation: 41796
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
This, exactly. Leave is an administrative procedure and there is nothing classified about it. Leave can be canceled for dozens of reasons and an anonymous family member asking a general question about leave being canceled isn't breaking any rules. Heck, we don't even know what unit in "Pacific Command", he could be a recruiter for all we know somewhere in the pacific command coverage area.

Way too much cloak and dagger going on in this thread.
All of this.

Thank you for posting.
 
Old 05-03-2017, 07:59 AM
 
373 posts, read 104,630 times
Reputation: 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtwinz View Post
My apologies if I offend someone..........but should this be on social media?
Should what be on social media? If you are thinking this might be classified material involved, there is not when it pertains to why a service member may not be able to take leave. The only people who may be restricted in discussing it are the military personnel.
 
Old 05-03-2017, 10:49 AM
 
1,993 posts, read 3,848,635 times
Reputation: 1133
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostSeniorinNJ View Post
Should what be on social media? If you are thinking this might be classified material involved, there is not when it pertains to why a service member may not be able to take leave. The only people who may be restricted in discussing it are the military personnel.
It goes for those immediately around them too that knows anything about movement or anything like that. If it was classified the member would say nothing about it.
This weekend we were in a store checking out and a couple of people were talking behind us and the daughter married a guy in the military. She gave out so much information that my husband turned around and told her I hope PVT xyz does good in medic school, that it is really warm there during that time of year and her mouth dropped open. They asked how he knew. His response was you gave it out. Then we walked off.
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