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Old 05-09-2017, 01:45 PM
 
Location: East Helena, MT
592 posts, read 304,791 times
Reputation: 1434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Physical is lagit but thats miles down the pipe after AFROTC/academy, i did 2 years of AFROTC and never took one and did the national gaurd and got out before OCS and never took one so thats like the end of the road when that flight physical should be day one, if im not physically qualified then thats kinda that, why waste huge amounts of time and money if your going to fail that exam.


I can tell you why. Because no one joins the Air Force saying, "man I want to fly the KC-10". Once they are that far in, they will just ride out their contract, even though they hate what they are flying. Some pilots will try to jump to another branch, and sometimes they have better luck at getting the aircraft they want. I know some Navy pilots that left to go to the Army to fly Helo's, as they said that flying Helo's was very challenging.




I don't know if it is still the case, but back in the late 90's the top graduate of flight school got to take their pick of which aircraft they wanted from a list they qualified for, the rest got assigned an aircraft based on the needs of the Navy. Every single young S-3 pilot I talked too all wanted to fly F-18's.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:00 PM
 
4,095 posts, read 1,548,061 times
Reputation: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
I can tell you why. Because no one joins the Air Force saying, "man I want to fly the KC-10". Once they are that far in, they will just ride out their contract, even though they hate what they are flying. Some pilots will try to jump to another branch, and sometimes they have better luck at getting the aircraft they want. I know some Navy pilots that left to go to the Army to fly Helo's, as they said that flying Helo's was very challenging.




I don't know if it is still the case, but back in the late 90's the top graduate of flight school got to take their pick of which aircraft they wanted from a list they qualified for, the rest got assigned an aircraft based on the needs of the Navy. Every single young S-3 pilot I talked too all wanted to fly F-18's.
Yep but if I cant fly that F-18 I would rather just do engineering work and design weapons with my engineering and math degrees as a govt civilian, R&D work and REAL engineering design work is not conducive to the uniform as people sitting in a little room/machine shop are not deployable.


I think the military shot themselves in the foot because the process they have created is passive aggressive and its playing with a significant portion of peoples lives and you loose a lot of smart people that have other options. I simply went out and bought a pitts biplane with my engineering salary, done deal no passive aggressive drama I just write a check and get the training.


I am NOT a solider first I am a pilot first and the sooner the military RE-learns that fact they can get better pilots, WAY better pilots. The only thing in my opinion that is going to get the militarys butt out of a sling is AI drone fighters because the military has a multi decade long history of screwing with people when it comes to flight school and specifically getting fighter air frames.


There are plenty of people that want to fly C-130's and tankers etc, just look at the private pilot community there are tons of 185 pilots and very few pitts and extra 300 pilots and 185's on wheel floats are not cheap so they are choosing to fly more tame aircraft.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
12,105 posts, read 39,456,181 times
Reputation: 9308
I would guess the guys who sign up particularly for tankers are intending to get 10 years of experience and then bolt for the airlines. I have a cousin who did that, more or less (He has not come out and said that this was his plan from the get-go, but, that's what he did). Pretty sure a tanker driver would be at home quickly in most airliner cockpits.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:27 PM
 
8,818 posts, read 13,908,128 times
Reputation: 15657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
I can tell you why. Because no one joins the Air Force saying, "man I want to fly the KC-10". Once they are that far in, they will just ride out their contract, even though they hate what they are flying. Some pilots will try to jump to another branch, and sometimes they have better luck at getting the aircraft they want. I know some Navy pilots that left to go to the Army to fly Helo's, as they said that flying Helo's was very challenging.




I don't know if it is still the case, but back in the late 90's the top graduate of flight school got to take their pick of which aircraft they wanted from a list they qualified for, the rest got assigned an aircraft based on the needs of the Navy. Every single young S-3 pilot I talked too all wanted to fly F-18's.
Actually, I read an air force study about this very issue, and graduates, particularly pilots graduating at the top of their class, were asking to be assigned to support aircraft for their advanced training rather than choosing fighters. Support aircraft gave the pilots more time with their families, less deployments overseas, and less combat rotations, enabling them to have a career and, for the military, a decent work/life balance. So, yes, some of the AF's best pilots were asking not to be assigned to fighters.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:38 PM
 
4,095 posts, read 1,548,061 times
Reputation: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
I would guess the guys who sign up particularly for tankers are intending to get 10 years of experience and then bolt for the airlines. I have a cousin who did that, more or less (He has not come out and said that this was his plan from the get-go, but, that's what he did). Pretty sure a tanker driver would be at home quickly in most airliner cockpits.
So then you pay more and/or stop having useless wars that no one wants to really fight. If we are over there for control of opium fields then just say that and pay the military members that volunteer for it accordingly (basically like sanctioned mercenary work while still being in uniform with a fatty bonus).


You will for sure get enough people to stay in and do shady operations for the right price, but then as the commander you will actually have to take control of said asset and you wont be able to afford to play games pretending we are over there to protect America. You hold the fields and suppress the local populations and give kick backs to those military members and what ever CIA groups or who ever need the cash to keep doing more shady stuff. Just like Roman legions. You cant go over pretending like you bringing these people freedom and protecting America, its about resources and taking out a few terrorists as a tertiary mission.


I think if everyone were honest about it and paid accordingly there would be way more support. The family man military member could opt out and the single navy seal who wants to retire early could go over.
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:22 PM
 
15,407 posts, read 7,809,394 times
Reputation: 14414
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
Actually, I read an air force study about this very issue, and graduates, particularly pilots graduating at the top of their class, were asking to be assigned to support aircraft for their advanced training rather than choosing fighters. Support aircraft gave the pilots more time with their families, less deployments overseas, and less combat rotations, enabling them to have a career and, for the military, a decent work/life balance. So, yes, some of the AF's best pilots were asking not to be assigned to fighters.
I would think it also puts them in better position for commercial pilot positions. A KC-10 is a DC-10.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,254 posts, read 1,543,008 times
Reputation: 1780
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Is this process useful in getting the best stick and rudder pilots? Whats going to happen if we have a major war, most professional pilots in the civilian sector are out of draft age, does the military think that people will be lined up to go get killed who 10-15 years earlier they told to take a hike?


Just seems like a really backwards way of maintaining a good military, we won WW2 on enlisted pilots.


Or do they think they just need basicly nuke deliverey drivers and that things like F22's are for show?
The military is looking for more than just stick and rudder skills. You want to be in the military to fly F22's, and not have to deal with everything that goes along with being an officer. It doesn't work that way.

Enlisted pilots haven't been around for more than half a century, and I doubt with your attitude you would be successful even if that path still existed.

There's a lot of people with civilian skills that would transfer to military service. However, there's more to joining and being in the military than just the ability to perform a particular skill.

I would like to hear how your ROTC and National Guard enlisted service are intertwined. Somehow I think that story would be quite revealing.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:29 AM
 
4,095 posts, read 1,548,061 times
Reputation: 2565
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
The military is looking for more than just stick and rudder skills. You want to be in the military to fly F22's, and not have to deal with everything that goes along with being an officer. It doesn't work that way.

Enlisted pilots haven't been around for more than half a century, and I doubt with your attitude you would be successful even if that path still existed.

There's a lot of people with civilian skills that would transfer to military service. However, there's more to joining and being in the military than just the ability to perform a particular skill.

I would like to hear how your ROTC and National Guard enlisted service are intertwined. Somehow I think that story would be quite revealing.

The modern day military contract system is an artificial construct in order to manipulate people, it is dishonest as someone does not have the option to walk if they are not picked up for flight, they have to serve in some other capacity, thats an issue as it is dishonest.


I got out of ROTC because it was a blind contract, I got out of the guard because it was a blind contract and after getting an engineering degree and having an engineering job I was in no mood to go be hazed again in OCS after already completing basic training. You can say what you want but those were my terms, as a skilled degreed person who almost had their professional engneering licence I get to have some terms, you can say what you want but its my life, I get to choose what I put up with.


I have some idea where you are going with this and that is part of the reason the military is suffering, intellegent people dont put up with passive aggressive manipulation. It should be that you come in on a pilot contract and if you cut it you cut it if you dont your washed out and can go get a civilian job, govt job or chose to stay in, but that should be the service members decision not the military.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,685 posts, read 2,261,862 times
Reputation: 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
The military is looking for more than just stick and rudder skills. You want to be in the military to fly F22's, and not have to deal with everything that goes along with being an officer. It doesn't work that way.

Enlisted pilots haven't been around for more than half a century, and I doubt with your attitude you would be successful even if that path still existed.

There's a lot of people with civilian skills that would transfer to military service. However, there's more to joining and being in the military than just the ability to perform a particular skill.

I would like to hear how your ROTC and National Guard enlisted service are intertwined. Somehow I think that story would be quite revealing.
Does the USAF have an equivalent to the US Army's Cadet Troop Leadership Training (CTLT) for both ROTC and West Point Cadets?

For the OP, the only solution if the DOD can't send its volunteer soldiers when and where as needed because of a restrictive contract with an opt out at every level and possible duty assignment is to go back to December 1942. A time with all the services depended upon conscription and the DOD decided where those whose draft call up came were assigned and what they were trained in.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:16 AM
 
15,407 posts, read 7,809,394 times
Reputation: 14414
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
I have some idea where you are going with this and that is part of the reason the military is suffering, intellegent people dont put up with passive aggressive manipulation. It should be that you come in on a pilot contract and if you cut it you cut it if you dont your washed out and can go get a civilian job, govt job or chose to stay in, but that should be the service members decision not the military.
I think you never really understood what military service actually is.


Lots of people don't.


It's not about being guaranteed to get what you want solely for your own jollies, it's about serving.
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