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Old 05-13-2017, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,203 posts, read 1,443,358 times
Reputation: 1648

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Concerning the OP's issues with obligations and contracts. The upside is the military will provide you with basic financial security for life, if you care to partake in the system.

I've had my hand in Uncle Sam's wallet since I was 18, and I'm 64 now. If you don't think that's important, go over to the finance or retirement forums, and listen to the crying about savings and inadequate 401k's.
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Old 05-14-2017, 02:52 AM
 
3,575 posts, read 1,231,366 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
What you're asking is for the military to change it's culture and regulations to suit you. Not going to happen.
Aren't the contracts determined by the DOD and ultimately approved by congress. If the contracting starts making it difficult to get/retain good people it will be brought into question. If it is just me then it is a non issue as I would not have even brought up the topic until I read that the military was having systemic recruitment/retention issues with pilots, which means maybe it's not just s me thing, but rather a military problem?
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:06 AM
 
3,575 posts, read 1,231,366 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
Concerning the OP's issues with obligations and contracts. The upside is the military will provide you with basic financial security for life, if you care to partake in the system.

I've had my hand in Uncle Sam's wallet since I was 18, and I'm 64 now. If you don't think that's important, go over to the finance or retirement forums, and listen to the crying about savings and inadequate 401k's.
There is no easy way out, the military can do serious damage to people and families, some get lucky and can get decent duty for 20 and some get basicly pushed out the door. I doubt it's systematic it's some combo of dumb luck some intelligence in how you negotiate and timing if the military is desperate at the time you sign up.

If your forced out via crap assignments crap deployment locations too often crap co workers etc and you get out and the civilian word treats you the same (crap retirement, age discrimination, etc) then maybe your test in life by God was a harder run, but it's hard not to complain when you spend the first night in your car. Perhaps some introspection is required when things are decent that you can come to terms with dying from exposure/elements/illness (it's pretty rare to die of hunger in the USA).

The USA is probably the worst first (or even second)world country to be poor in.
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:20 AM
 
3,575 posts, read 1,231,366 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
You speak of an intolerance for hazing. While much of traditional ceremonial hazing has been toned down in the modern military, there are still formal training activities that are done for a legitimate reason, that resemble hazing. Survival training comes to mind. To my knowledge, aviation candidates in all military branches, must endure and pass some variation of this training. Your ROTC hazing experience will pale in comparison.
When I refer to hazing I am not referring to lagitimate training activities but rather the behavior of trainers between training activities. Survival training should be hard. I am referring to the condescension screaming for no reason etc.

There is a very clear difference between something that is lagitimatly difficult training and just people being dicks, any thinking person can discern between them as well.

I would rather have something that was intellectually and physically challenging than just some crap bag that likes to scream and shout nonsense because they out rank you.

Being shot down over the middle of nowhere and having to survive is a natural consequence for shabby stick and rudder skills and that means I deserve to be there lol.

As I write this I wonder how they captured Gary powers so easily?

The rotc stuff was juvenile nonsense I did not have time for when taking 18 credits of engineering.
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:09 PM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
10,912 posts, read 4,834,764 times
Reputation: 4787
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
When I refer to hazing I am not referring to lagitimate training activities but rather the behavior of trainers between training activities. Survival training should be hard. I am referring to the condescension screaming for no reason etc.

There is a very clear difference between something that is lagitimatly difficult training and just people being dicks, any thinking person can discern between them as well.

I would rather have something that was intellectually and physically challenging than just some crap bag that likes to scream and shout nonsense because they out rank you.

Being shot down over the middle of nowhere and having to survive is a natural consequence for shabby stick and rudder skills and that means I deserve to be there lol.

As I write this I wonder how they captured Gary powers so easily?

The rotc stuff was juvenile nonsense I did not have time for when taking 18 credits of engineering.
LOL? YGBSM. I gotta respond to an asinine comment like the bolded above.


One of the very BEST sticks I have ever known, Steve "Syph" Phillis, is very dead because of an SA-9 or SA-13 SAM. His stick and rudder skills were second to none, but he was on the losing end of an unobserved SAM launch while aiding a stricken wingman.


I too took 18 credits of engineering plus three credits ROTC in the POC course (21 total) for four semesters (junior/senior years) so don't play the professional victim game.
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,203 posts, read 1,443,358 times
Reputation: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Aren't the contracts determined by the DOD and ultimately approved by congress. If the contracting starts making it difficult to get/retain good people it will be brought into question. If it is just me then it is a non issue as I would not have even brought up the topic until I read that the military was having systemic recruitment/retention issues with pilots, which means maybe it's not just s me thing, but rather a military problem?
There will always be retention issues in times of airline hiring booms. Which is happening now. As for recruiting and obligations, the years required for active duty have varied over the years. But I doubt you'll ever be able to just walk away within the period of obligation.

I will suggest the recruiting problem likely has more to do with the quality of the applicant pool, rather than any actual shortage. Standards may be tweaked downward some, but not as radically as you desire.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,203 posts, read 1,443,358 times
Reputation: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
There is no easy way out, the military can do serious damage to people and families, some get lucky and can get decent duty for 20 and some get basicly pushed out the door. I doubt it's systematic it's some combo of dumb luck some intelligence in how you negotiate and timing if the military is desperate at the time you sign up.

If your forced out via crap assignments crap deployment locations too often crap co workers etc and you get out and the civilian word treats you the same (crap retirement, age discrimination, etc) then maybe your test in life by God was a harder run, but it's hard not to complain when you spend the first night in your car. Perhaps some introspection is required when things are decent that you can come to terms with dying from exposure/elements/illness (it's pretty rare to die of hunger in the USA).

The USA is probably the worst first (or even second)world country to be poor in.
Does your passion for F-22's exceed your laundry list of things you hate about the military?
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,203 posts, read 1,443,358 times
Reputation: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
LOL? YGBSM. I gotta respond to an asinine comment like the bolded above.


One of the very BEST sticks I have ever known, Steve "Syph" Phillis, is very dead because of an SA-9 or SA-13 SAM. His stick and rudder skills were second to none, but he was on the losing end of an unobserved SAM launch while aiding a stricken wingman.


I too took 18 credits of engineering plus three credits ROTC in the POC course (21 total) for four semesters (junior/senior years) so don't play the professional victim game.
He reminds me of Trump denigrating John McCain.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:07 AM
 
Location: Southwest
363 posts, read 298,191 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
I think this is a little off topic. The military should never compromise on its standards ... ever. The issue is that as an individual it is not out of line for me to want, and have the right as a US citizen to pursue careers that I want to do.


I don't have a right to fly fighters if I wash out and don't meet standards but as a citizen of this nation I should have a right to try if I meet the pre-quals (have the proper BS degree, AFOQT, medical, etc) and be able to walk away if I wash out. The military does not have the right to treat people like slaves or indentured servants unless said person got their degree paid for or took some other VERY significant monetary advantage (or in the case of WW3 as declared by congress and a draft is implemented but that's another topic). I think that it is sad that our elected representatives have allowed the current military contracts to exist as they do for this long.


If said candidate has gone through the expense and hassle of funding their own BS degree, studying and taking the AFOQT getting into shape getting their own PPL etc then they also have skin in the game.
Sorry, pal, once you are accepted into the military, you have agreed to serve " at the pleasure of the government". If you are unwilling or unable to accept that responsibility under those conditions, you do not have the "right" to wet your knickers, plead your incredible education, and demand/expect to be handed what you deem is your reward for being who/what you are.

Suck it up and shut up!

The military is not obligated to accept you for any or every reason; you do not have the "right" to demand the military owes you a job or position.

Whine elsewhere
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
11,433 posts, read 37,699,480 times
Reputation: 8378
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
LOL? YGBSM. I gotta respond to an asinine comment like the bolded above.


One of the very BEST sticks I have ever known, Steve "Syph" Phillis, is very dead because of an SA-9 or SA-13 SAM. His stick and rudder skills were second to none, but he was on the losing end of an unobserved SAM launch while aiding a stricken wingman.


I too took 18 credits of engineering plus three credits ROTC in the POC course (21 total) for four semesters (junior/senior years) so don't play the professional victim game.
A great guy, and he didn't take himself too seriously with a nickname like that, I guess.

I think there are certain people cut out for the military life, and then the majority who just are not cut out for it - they may serve even with distinction if drafted, but, it's just not the life they want. Being more or less a "crew member" with Nuke Navy people at prototype, there certainly is a camaraderie that's hard to find elsewhere. The pay is good, really, and while you are stuck with the job for your contract, you also have very little prospect of being "laid off". Not all officers make it to 20 years, but if you do, the retirement is hard to beat and happens early enough in life that you can have a second career, while if you are frugal, you will always have enough money for the basics. There are worse outcomes.

But the deal is what it is, OP - either you consider that the good outweighs the bad, and go for it, or you don't, and if you don't, OK fine, move on to the next phase of life.

If you have the financial ability to fly a Pitts on your own terms, reasonably as much as you want, you probably won't beat the flying end of that in the military.
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