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Old 09-19-2017, 06:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
What are some battles the CIA has actually fought?
They don't fight battles but they do have paramilitary 'employees'. Some came to light during the early afganistan war.
Specialized non conventional they don't fight battles but do conduct operations
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The CIA does not have any combat maneuver elements. They can get together a squad or so. But generally, that's not something the CIA does, and yes, more often a CIA officer will more likely just be an adviser (or irritant) to some other actual combat maneuver element.
Which makes them similar to the United States Army Special Forces, in that advisory/trainer role being a primary mission. Going back into fiction before the special forces bias kicks in to two Vietnam movies, the first set in WWII with Frank Sinatra as an Office of Strategic Services,the predecessor to the CIA, (OSS) officer leading indigenous forces the second being the famous The Green Berets were the two A-Teams, generally 12 soldiers were leading South Vietnamese and ethnic Montagnard troops. Even in the second battle of that film, the raid showing the team fighting together not leading the Vietnamese around team a large part of their force were Montagnards.

There being no Army Ranger units during Vietnam until the look range patrols were renamed Rangers, as that looked better in official dispatches than Lurps, some special forces were split off of that primary mission seen in the first big battle of The Green Berets movie for the second raid and behind the lines recon as seen in the second smaller battle in the film. Given his personality in the first two films I would suspect that John Rambo was more the behind the lines raiding Special Forces type than the leader of indigenous Mike Forces Special Forces type And lead in real life the post Vietnam War development of Delta to be more specialist in such missions

You could say that the OSS teams are the real predecessor to Army Special Forces even if they show their official linage to Merrill's Marauders which, if the movie was accurate, was a large Ranger unit, as was the Devil's Brigade.

You could say in what I am calling the special forces bias which kicked into fictional portrayals of characters, more so than actual combat films, in the 1990s did not exist as in the show Sea Hunt with Lloyd Bridges. Although he had the special skill set and military biography but even as memories of specific episodes fade I don't remember any Mike Nelson was UDT emphasis. I can't remember if the late 80s remake had Ron Ely as a vet at all with the remake being less violent there was no need to make him be an ex SEAL. But given the thesis of the thread it could have happened.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:24 AM
Status: "delete" (set 21 days ago)
 
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They're not going to make a movie about the guy stationed in San Diego, that never deployed, worked in an office, and got out after 4 years (or less), but has 80-90% disability, including PTSD.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
They're not going to make a movie about the guy stationed in San Diego, that never deployed, worked in an office, and got out after 4 years (or less), but has 80-90% disability, including PTSD.
But why not Detective Holmes Special Agent Sherlock who took his G.I. Bill benefits and education beyond BUDS or Ranger School into public service? I guess there was Goren of Criminal Intent who was a CID Agent. But the franchise still had their Army Ranger on the SVU squad. For post Vietnam era detectives 50% of the veterans were special operating forces
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Elysium
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Since someone pointed me I guess an update time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I noticed on the promotion for NBC TV The Brave that their special operations team has a female full-time. Not part time like on Taken, the Liam Neeson movie inspired prequel last year. I am reasonably sure one of the females on SEAL Team on CBS TV will be among the first female SEALS.

As far back as Soldier of Fortune in the 90s with Dennis Rodman fictional special operations teams have had females,. In that case Melinda Clarke was playing a CIA ex agent on the team much like Bridget Reagan on the Last Ship who replaced and Israeli female and was joined by a Kenyan female soldier this season.
It seems that I was wrong about SEAL Team, probably the most real of last fall's four military dramas. However many think it was also the most boring as much time was spent with the families like on The Unit. The mid season finale felt like a soft reboot as the team will forward deploy away from home base and the families.

It seems as if NCIS Los Angeles plans on adding one of the first female Special Forces soldiers (Green Berets) to join their ex SEAL and ex CIA Agent. Never mind that no female has passed the course in real life yet. I don't know if that means they are planning for the departure of one of their female warriors who did not have a Department of Defense special forces qualification in her bio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I tend to focus upon the veterans as well as the military shows. And on JAG the law office had two special ops type, the JAG himself was a SEAL and the Gunnery Sergeant office manager was a Force Recon Marine. The other lawyers a female Marine, a submariner and the lead character a fighter pilot.

I think the undercover team you are referencing is The Unit which was suppose to be a Delta team.

The first Marine Officer that I can think of is Major Dad.


But of course the question is why focus on special operators. I propose because in real life roughly from 1971 to 2001 regular forces were not in the type of combat that was pleasing to put in a character bio or even show on screen.

I think I remember a character who was a veteran of the Mayaguez Incident which was used so the actor being to young to be a Vietnam veteran fit better. But giving our coming out of Vietnam it was okay that we lost. You had shows like Magnum PI and even Sgt Major Higgins with his endless stories of the British empire going away. While the Marines in Beruit were peacekeeping and not fighting it did spawn Delta Force and Navy SEAL movies which brings us to Heartbreak Ridge,

Grenada served us one movie more about the old Gunny and by extension that generation of Americans who were what the script called 0-1-1 from 1946 onward. But seeing our Rangers, Marines and Airborne Infantry over running a little island does not seem a sporting background for your hero character. Similarly fighting Dignity Battalions in Panama didn't draw movie interest, although the Major Dad cast were pulled from the School of Infantry to serve on a HQ staff in a Panama like nation, but stayed home at a logistics base during the Gulf War.

The Gulf War itself with the image of Iraqis surrendering to war correspondents gave us Jarhead with Marine Scout Snipers having nothing to do, Three Kings as a Special Forces officer with really nothing to do pulling a gold heist. And Courage Under Fire with the first female Medal Of Honor being the hook gave us those dealing with friendly fire.

So when we had a hero character as a combat vet it was normally as a special operator in a mission that didn't happen publicly. Be it the drug war, the Balkans or anywhere. The most recent regular troops that I can recall were the villain from Justified Boyd Crowder being a combat engineer in the Gulf and Detective Bosch from the Amazon series. In the case of Bosch the character was originally a tunnel rat in Vietnam in the series of novels but found himself in a trench during the 100 hours of the ground war in the Gulf.

After 9/11 veteran characters began to show up again but by then just about all male leads or regulars were Rangers or SEALs. On the guest star level like "Army" on The Shield there was a tendency to have relatively bad guys be Iraq veterans and good guys Afghanistan veterans until we pulled out of Iraq and now as with the Mayaguez incident being used to cast younger actors you almost always see Afghanistan vets in the past 5 years which gives the casting director more options age wise
To update Harry Bosch the Vietnam tunnel rat turned Gulf War veteran of a firefight in a trench for the TV show. In the third season he turns up as a 5th Special Forces Group veteran of the first years in Afghanistan. Never mind how old a rookie cop he would have had to been, become a homicide detective, write a novel which was sold to become a movie and become the character we know now in 10 years time. The elite special bias had to be served.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I still think that when the elite prejudice began the ordinary infantryman did not see combat or his Bradley Fighting Vehicle following a M1 tank just blew through the Iraqi Army in 1991. The character need to be special forces to justify his war story history.

Now it becomes a lazy way to say just how special your cop or Federal Agent is because while the others went to the police academy your Riggs of Lethal Weapon, Tutuola of Special Victims Unit, Gibbs and Hanna of NCIS....and so on and so on went to BUDS or Ranger School and short hand proved to be more than a civil servant with a handgun.

When the elite bias started with Rambo and Magnum PI you could still have your veteran character be a Sonny Crockett and just an infantryman in the Vietnam era Air Cav because the culture knew of all those ordinary troops memorialized at the Wall without the service school with the high drop out rate in their bio.
Can FBI and ICE agents choose to go to BUD's or other such training (ranger, etc) to become a better agent if they are not past military but want the credibility rather than just being another stereotypical washed up civilian fed worker?
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Can FBI and ICE agents choose to go to BUD's or other such training (ranger, etc) to become a better agent if they are not past military but want the credibility rather than just being another stereotypical washed up civilian fed worker?
I remember Kevin Costner in The Guardian where the USCG Aviation Survival Technician School by implication made their Rescue Swimmers the special forces of the Coast Guard. He had a line about the combat orientation of the Navy compared to their life saving focus. Cops and soldiers have a different focus, even if many young soldiers grow up to be cops.

I can't think of a script reason a TV/movie federal or local law enforcement agency would send someone to a service qualification course except as undercover operative working a suspect who is in the cadre or a student in the course.

TV cop characters have always had a strange relationship with SWAT, while one member of a detective team may have been a veteran of a special operations force the portrayal of SWAT has been that of combat junkies who just wanted o kill from LT Hunter's Emergency Action Team of Hill Street Blues forward to the many times seen trope of the hero beating back the SWAT commander who wanted to take over an incident give a shoot order to the sniper and throw in the grenades. But then of course that detective/federal agent who just stopped a SWAT breach in one episode will go back to his ways of getting in a gun battle every episode the next week.

Real world, I would guess that actual Secret Service, FBI Hostage Rescue and SWAT teams do some training with their military service counterparts but that is different then using the service school as a substitute for the civilian law enforcement training like the US Army Ranger School can be used in lieu of the ROTC Advanced Course for Cadets.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
31,389 posts, read 18,427,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headingtoDenver View Post
I think Hollywood should make a movie about us USMC 2847s going through the hell which was Y2K.
Forget about Hollywood. Not many movies are that impressive anyway. When I watched their movies about SEALs, I always found myself saying, "Really? This is what they did? What is so special about it?" lol, but that is just me.

I enjoy program like Generation Kill.

My real life friends' stories are way more impressive than the hollywood movies. They are combat Marines.

When you are surrounded by real super heroes, who needs those actors playing one?

add: Many real life soldiers, Marines, sailors, etc, are so much better looking too. =) Many of these hollywood special force movies are so fake; the actors are normally too old anyway. The only person who looks like a real deal is probably Ed Harris who played a Marine force recon general in the movie The Rock. (the movie sucks, but the general rocks! )

Another good military movie is Taking chance. I think Kevin Bacon did such a fantastic job. The movie has nothing to do with special forces, but it brings tears to my eyes. They should make more movies like this, everyday sailors, Marines, soldiers, airmen making sacrifices. Nobody needs to see the fake one man show. Plus, isn't that hero worshipping looked down upon in the military? It is not like one person or one team can win the war.

Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 04-04-2018 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:19 AM
 
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Maybe because it seems there's nothing but none stop action going on? A lot of vets don't write autobiographs. It wasn't until my late father died, that I found out he had served as an honor guard to King George of Greece and Field Marshall Montgomery when he was in North Africa. he was also a prisioner of war at a camp run by the germans there as well. I'm sure he had a lot of adventures serious and even funny,but he never would have written a book about them,just as other WW2 vets didn't write down their stories.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
31,389 posts, read 18,427,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Don't forget Gomer Pyle USMC... definitely no Special OPs there or Officer and a Gentleman or Private Valentine or Stripes...
....which is why that movie is so stupid.

How come Pyle stayed in the bootcamp for so many months and still be overweight? This makes zero sense.

In real life, he would have been sent to the pork chop platoon or processed out.

Accuracy is not a feature that should be expected for movies, because there is always the view of the director and what the script wants to emphasize in the movie: humanity, heroism, the effect on the population, horror of war, failed foreign policy etc. So if this movie entertained some people, fine. But to me, this movie has absolutely no values.

Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 04-04-2018 at 11:31 AM..
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