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Old 10-07-2017, 11:43 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,481 times
Reputation: 20

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Here’s my case...

I am just looking to start the process to join the the military. I am 25 and currently work for the local police department in an admin role and I am an officer for my local fire department. In 2011 when I was 19 I was arrested for retail theft. A total of $575 which in military standards is grand larceny and is considered major misconduct which is not an easy waiver to get passed. I paid the business the money and paid the fines. The Charges were dismissed and the arrest was expunged. I have not been in trouble since. I have run my own background checks with the arresting department, my local department, the state police and FBI ( sent in fingerprint card ) and they all come back clean as a whistle.

Looking online not knowing this people they say the military will find it. Talking to guys that are/were in the service one of which is a recruiter saying the record won’t be found UNLESS you go a job that requires a secret clearance.

So what is it really!? Can I skate by with going for a job that doesn’t requires clearance!?
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:34 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,000 posts, read 35,218,851 times
Reputation: 26681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter88 View Post
Here’s my case...

I am just looking to start the process to join the the military. I am 25 and currently work for the local police department in an admin role and I am an officer for my local fire department. In 2011 when I was 19 I was arrested for retail theft. A total of $575 which in military standards is grand larceny and is considered major misconduct which is not an easy waiver to get passed. I paid the business the money and paid the fines. The Charges were dismissed and the arrest was expunged. I have not been in trouble since. I have run my own background checks with the arresting department, my local department, the state police and FBI ( sent in fingerprint card ) and they all come back clean as a whistle.

Looking online not knowing this people they say the military will find it. Talking to guys that are/were in the service one of which is a recruiter saying the record won’t be found UNLESS you go a job that requires a secret clearance.

So what is it really!? Can I skate by with going for a job that doesn’t requires clearance!?
If you apply to enter the military, your fingerprints will be taken and they will forward those prints to the FBI where as a minimum they will check for whatever wants and arrests exist or have existed. I have heard the "Charges were dismissed and the arrest was expunged" many times... Only to find out that the FBI does not throw away old fingerprint cards. Expunged records seem to show up when DoD starts their checks.

Good luck to you...
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:23 PM
 
3 posts, read 1,481 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
If you apply to enter the military, your fingerprints will be taken and they will forward those prints to the FBI where as a minimum they will check for whatever wants and arrests exist or have existed. I have heard the "Charges were dismissed and the arrest was expunged" many times... Only to find out that the FBI does not throw away old fingerprint cards. Expunged records seem to show up when DoD starts their checks.

Good luck to you...
So if I go to a local police barracks and get my fingerprints taken, placed on a card, and I mail it to Clarksburks WV to get a FBI background check and it comes back “ No Record Found “ ( which I have done multiple times for civil service jobs ) it means nothing and the DoD gets a different result?
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Fuquay Varina
3,631 posts, read 5,434,996 times
Reputation: 8004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter88 View Post
So if I go to a local police barracks and get my fingerprints taken, placed on a card, and I mail it to Clarksburks WV to get a FBI background check and it comes back “ No Record Found “ ( which I have done multiple times for civil service jobs ) it means nothing and the DoD gets a different result?


I think and hope the DOD has access to databases that not every agency does when they are doing background checks. Just be honest and you wont have to worry about it.
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:35 PM
 
Location: The wild horse filled region of Atropia.
65 posts, read 22,819 times
Reputation: 145
Was it dismissed or did you do some diversion type program and then it was dismissed? If the former, list the charge.

Don't fall for the silly if it doesn't require a clearance garbage. Yes, some jobs don't need a clearance. Congrats-you're a cook.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:35 PM
 
7,556 posts, read 8,122,721 times
Reputation: 11432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter88 View Post
So if I go to a local police barracks and get my fingerprints taken, placed on a card, and I mail it to Clarksburks WV to get a FBI background check and it comes back “ No Record Found “ ( which I have done multiple times for civil service jobs ) it means nothing and the DoD gets a different result?
Here's how it works. When a person is arrested, the arresting agency can submit the information to the federal clearinghouse or they can hold the submission. If they submit the information, it;s now a permanent record. Sealed or expunged records simply keep certain entities from seeing the information. Civil and Informational record checks will not show any sealed or expunged records. Law Enforcement record check may or may not show the arrest depending on the level of that check. However, if the arrest was submitted to the feds, it will be visible to the DOD just with a notation it was subsequently sealed or expunged. If the record was withheld from the federal clearinghouse (usually only for low level juvenile, petty nonsense or a money trap scam by police and judges) the federal clearinghouse will have no record since they were never told.

There is a big difference between arrest/charges with adverse adjudication and those with unconditional non adverse adjudication. All adverse adjudications are counted. An unconditional non adverse adjudication is essentially the equivalent of mistaken identity. But, any other outcome where you basically did the deed, with or without a conviction on record is a adverse adjudication.
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:15 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,015 times
Reputation: 10
Have you spoken to a recruiter at all?

I came in with a marijuana possession arrest, and they got me the waiver for that.
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Old 10-08-2017, 07:16 AM
 
8,661 posts, read 5,889,578 times
Reputation: 14766
It's going to be difficult to find a military job that doesn't require at least a Secret clearance. But I wouldn't worry. The offense that was expunged was stupid but corrected. It's not violent, not against the government, not something that you've repeated. Your current job(s) show that you're a different person now.

One disqualification for clearance is extreme debt that would make you a target for bribery. I don't think this is going to be an issue.

But if it is, it is. You have to jump in to swim!
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Old 10-08-2017, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
454 posts, read 182,278 times
Reputation: 1040
Here's what you'll have to report on the SF 86 for a background check for a security clearance:

Quote:
For this section report information regardless of whether the record in your case has been sealed, expunged, or otherwise stricken from the court record, or the charge was dismissed. You need not report convictions under the Federal Controlled Substances Act for which the court issued an expungement order under the authority of 21 U.S.C. 844 or 18 U.S.C. 3607. Be sure to include all incidents whether occurring in the U.S. or abroad.

Have any of the following happened? (If 'Yes' you will be asked to provide details for each offense that pertains to the actions that are identified below.)

- In the past seven (7) years have you been issued a summons, citation, or ticket to appear in court in a criminal proceeding against you? (Do not check if all the citations involved traffic infractions where the fine was less than $300 and did not include alcohol or drugs)
- In the past seven (7) years have you been arrested by any police officer, sheriff, marshal or any other type of law enforcement official?
- In the past seven (7) years have you been charged, convicted, or sentenced of a crime in any court? (Include all qualifying charges convictions or sentences in any Federal, state, local, military, or non-U.S. court, even if previously listed on this form).
- In the past seven (7) years have you been or are you currently on probation or parole?
- Are you currently on trial or awaiting a trial on criminal charges?
If you answer yes, you'll provide the details, including the outcome.

Here's a link, if you want to see the detail of what you'd have to answer for a security clearance.
https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86-non508.pdf

Suggest you review it, then tell the recruiter the exact truth. By being totally up front, and by dint of you working for local police and fire, even though your arrest is within the seven year reporting timeframe, I do not see you having an issue.
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
521 posts, read 298,062 times
Reputation: 1515
If you fail to disclose it and it shows up, the lingo used is "match" meaning a record found matched your identity. This result requires intervention by a higher authority. You have a better chance of disclosing charges because honesty matters. Frankly, no amount of "I forgot" or "my recruiter told me not to say anything" or "the judge told me the charges were forever sealed", ever changed my mind when dealing with an applicant. I was one of those higher authorities that had to deal with it, and the only cases I fought for were certain stacked charges--I could understand a kid who disclosed a public intoxication on May 11, and the background came back as a match for PI, disturbing the peace, and trespassing all on the same date--police in certain jurisdictions will ticket one event with every possible infraction--while all some young kid is doing is freaking out over getting caught at a house party with a beer--he never turned up the stereo or thought sitting on the same porch with 15 other kids as trespassing.


I would not cut a break to someone who forgot to disclose any felony charge, stacked or not. Same with disclosing a lesser charge like speeding when they were also charged with misdemeanor possession and "forgot" the possession charge.


Every case is different, but one thing is always true: Tell everything and you never have to explain the inconsistencies with your story and the results on the background check.
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