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Old 10-25-2017, 08:25 AM
 
20,879 posts, read 41,253,551 times
Reputation: 10408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVREDLEG View Post
I don't know the official reason, so take this "with a grain of salt", but with complete respect and reverence for the sacrifice of a fellow Soldier and his family:

If the body was exposed to fire or explosive fragmentation and concussion, it may not be recognizable by visual identification--how is showing a family member this kind of horror going to give closure? I have seen the horrific effects of burning, fragmentation, and large caliber bullet wounds while in combat--it sure hasn't given me any closure after 11 years.

Of course, it could be nothing at all related to the condition of the remains--just consider the psychological effect of viewing remains is not always the path to closure--the science is not as simple as that.

I wouldn't wish this tragedy on anyone, and without "politicizing" anything, the remains MIGHT be beyond recognition.

I will not get any more graphic about it than this--even a single strike to a certain part of human anatomy by something like a 7.62 x 39mm projectile--it haunts forever when you used to know that person.
Yes you are right--
There is often no resemblance to the person know within the remains
But the option belongs to the family as to whether or not THEY know that and still elect to view the remains
Doesn't mean they want an open casket funeral
But their right to view their loved one doesn't end because what they might see is horrible
And after being outside for 48 hrs, in that environment, and after a desperate fire fight there likely was very little resemblance to the physical person...

Mrs. Johnson was married to a Green Beret for years--she had to have been around other wives who lost loved ones--she and her husband had to know that going into active service deployment overseas meant a heighten degree of risk so she was not ignorant of the possibility he might be injured or killed...maybe in very terrible circumstances...

But she was not offered the option to view the body from what she said--
For Sarah Sanders to say there is a chain of command and she has to go through the proper channels to view the body is meaningless because the body is buried at this point--
All it took was ONE question after the body arrived stateside--
Do you want to view the remains??? That apparently was never asked...

The Army and likely the government wanted this to be dusted and done
They (whoever made the decision not to allow the family to view) thought it was safer to keep it closed...
That is just a bully tactic

Remember what happened with Pat Tilly's death
I put no faith in the Army's/government's version at this stage of the inquiry
Where there is ass to cover, there is usually more than enough military to provide the shade...

 
Old 10-25-2017, 08:29 AM
 
20,879 posts, read 41,253,551 times
Reputation: 10408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Remember the care taken after Osama bin Laden's body was positively identified? We also recruit from communities whose surviving family members also care about the treatment of remains and just as we give pensions we do try our best not to throw out the concerns of those surviving family of the one who made the greatest sacrifice for us.
In the overall military budget, I imagine the cost of returning ALL military members who have died serving their country on foreign soil is a drop in the bucket compared to funding coffee for the Pentagon...
Maybe we should ask all those people to just chip in and buy their own...
 
Old 10-25-2017, 08:35 AM
 
15,476 posts, read 7,887,288 times
Reputation: 14490
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
In the overall military budget, I imagine the cost of returning ALL military members who have died serving their country on foreign soil is a drop in the bucket compared to funding coffee for the Pentagon...
Maybe we should ask all those people to just chip in and buy their own...
Most of us do. From my Air Force experience, which included duty in the Pentagon, we only got free coffee as flight crewmembers on certain aircraft with long-duration missions. Otherwise, there was a "coffee fund" that we paid into, or a vending machine or a snack bar.


But as I stated earlier, the money spent on returning bodies to the US is a pittance of the DoD budget. Nobody is lacking beans or bullets because of that expense.
 
Old 10-25-2017, 08:39 AM
 
15,476 posts, read 7,887,288 times
Reputation: 14490
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Yes you are right--



The Army and likely the government wanted this to be dusted and done
They (whoever made the decision not to allow the family to view) thought it was safer to keep it closed...
...
We don't know who "they" is.


This is an important point:


The military turned the body over to the family.


The body was held and buried by the family's choice of funeral service.


The family's funeral home held a "viewing" period for an entire day.


Ultimately, the wife did not see the body while it was in military custody, but it was out of military custody and in the custody of the family (through their own agent, the funeral home) for at least two days.
 
Old 10-25-2017, 09:50 AM
 
4,695 posts, read 5,297,460 times
Reputation: 8494
/\ /\ /\

Also I wouldn't expect the casket to be opened on the tarmac. I can see it being opened, if requested, in the private area.

Makes me wonder also, was there a casualty assistance officer with the family? Should have been and it seems to me that a lot of this could have been addressed properly by that person.

This particular situation just seems weird to me and against my experience
 
Old 10-25-2017, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
528 posts, read 303,782 times
Reputation: 1535
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Mrs. Johnson was married to a Green Beret for years--she had to have been around other wives who lost loved ones--she and her husband had to know that going into active service deployment overseas meant a heighten degree of risk so she was not ignorant of the possibility he might be injured or killed...maybe in very terrible circumstances......
Are you referring to the Soldier in this discussion? He was a mechanic who joined the military 3.5 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Remember what happened with Pat Tilly's death
I put no faith in the Army's/government's version at this stage of the inquiry
Where there is ass to cover, there is usually more than enough military to provide the shade...
Who is Pat Tilly? Are you referring to Pat Tillman?

Moderator cut: Off topic

Last edited by Oldhag1; Today at 05:15 PM..
 
Old 10-25-2017, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
7,055 posts, read 6,355,856 times
Reputation: 13928
My brother was killed in a non combat situation after Vietnam. It was pretty gruesome so as the family, we didn't see his body.

An immediate family member committed suicide by hanging. He hung for 48 hours before authorities found the body.

His mother had us view the body before the casket was closed. The only memories I can think of now are his mangled, twisted body.
 
Old 10-25-2017, 10:58 AM
 
15,476 posts, read 7,887,288 times
Reputation: 14490
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
My brother was killed in a non combat situation after Vietnam. It was pretty gruesome so as the family, we didn't see his body.

An immediate family member committed suicide by hanging. He hung for 48 hours before authorities found the body.

His mother had us view the body before the casket was closed. The only memories I can think of now are his mangled, twisted body.




People can do this: Do a Google image search for "emmett till," a case in which the mother of a brutally beaten young man chose to show what the corpse looked like after being reconstructed as well as possible by the mortician. That was not a final memory for any loved one to retain.


There's too much television of good-looking corpses.
 
Old 10-25-2017, 10:58 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 3,916,973 times
Reputation: 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Yes you are right--
There is often no resemblance to the person know within the remains
But the option belongs to the family as to whether or not THEY know that and still elect to view the remains
Doesn't mean they want an open casket funeral
But their right to view their loved one doesn't end because what they might see is horrible
And after being outside for 48 hrs, in that environment, and after a desperate fire fight there likely was very little resemblance to the physical person...

Mrs. Johnson was married to a Green Beret for years--she had to have been around other wives who lost loved ones--she and her husband had to know that going into active service deployment overseas meant a heighten degree of risk so she was not ignorant of the possibility he might be injured or killed...maybe in very terrible circumstances...

But she was not offered the option to view the body from what she said--
For Sarah Sanders to say there is a chain of command and she has to go through the proper channels to view the body is meaningless because the body is buried at this point--
All it took was ONE question after the body arrived stateside--
Do you want to view the remains??? That apparently was never asked...

The Army and likely the government wanted this to be dusted and done
They (whoever made the decision not to allow the family to view) thought it was safer to keep it closed...
That is just a bully tactic

Remember what happened with Pat Tilly's death
I put no faith in the Army's/government's version at this stage of the inquiry
Where there is ass to cover, there is usually more than enough military to provide the shade...
Sgt Johnson was not a green beret. He was attached to Special Forces in GSB (hence the red beret).

It is not a bully tactic to keep a coffin closed if the body is not in good condition at all. A friend of mine, her dad's coffin was closed because he was in a crash and they had to identify each piece of his and others bodies by DNA. Those pieces they could not identify were put in a single coffin and buried in Arlington.
 
Old 10-25-2017, 12:19 PM
 
1,050 posts, read 2,479,437 times
Reputation: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post

Ultimately, the wife did not see the body while it was in military custody, but it was out of military custody and in the custody of the family (through their own agent, the funeral home) for at least two days.
Can you provide a link to this source? or is this your interpretation?

Are you really suggesting that the body was out of military sight and control prior to burial?
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