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Old 11-01-2017, 09:01 PM
 
5,318 posts, read 5,570,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
What the old soldier said. if you saw the movie depiction of Black Hawk Down notice that as soon as the helicopter engines started winding up there was the rebel groups scouts calling to say here come the Rangers. It is the same with APCs, trucks, and tanks. In some situations your vehicles can move faster then they can evacuate or prepare defenses but rarely are we in the take that village at all cost mode but rather trying to sneak in with minimum force to gain some other objective.
They did get their man did they not? I am sure there were other issues besides losing element of surprise. I am sure they already knew they did not nor were counting on having element of surprise.

True dominance of the enemy comes when they always know what you will do but are still powerless to stop it.
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Elysium
5,739 posts, read 3,036,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
They did get their man did they not? I am sure there were other issues besides losing element of surprise. I am sure they already knew they did not nor were counting on having element of surprise.

True dominance of the enemy comes when they always know what you will do but are still powerless to stop it.
You are forgetting the hearts and minds campaign to pull out that old term. We are not going to bomb mostly non combatant populations from nearly orbit and then send combat engineering vehicles to turn the rumble into roads as we move on to the next objective. Even though we could do that most nations of the world were active combat is taking place.
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Pérouges
576 posts, read 642,971 times
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Infantry units and especially Airborne units walk a lot and carry a lot, a hell of a lot.
How else are you and what you need to use when you get there going to get there?
It lands with you, you pick it up and carry it.
......... simple really.
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Old 11-05-2017, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale
880 posts, read 391,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army_Guy View Post
I was around 140 pounds back then.

Here goes what I was carrying/wearing:

body armor with front/back/side plates-plates are 1" thick ceramic
ballistic helmet
M4 rifle with ACOG optic
7 magazines with 30 rounds in each magazine
rack to hold magazines and other small equipment
Radio with cords and mic
antenna for the radio
1 battery for each day
GPS
Spare batteries for GPS
digital camera
8 bottles of water per day of patrol-carried up to 3 days of supply
2 MREs for each day of patrol-carried up to 3 days of supply
backpack to store all the stuff I'm not wearing
large ruck sack to store all the little stuff in
sleeping system (wet weather liner & sleeping bag)
hygiene items such as toothbrush & toothpaste, baby wipes

I'm sure I've left some stuff off.

There are two common sayings:

1. pack light, shiver at night. Some guys would pack less stuff which meant carrying less of the "comfort" items like a sleeping bag and/or sleeping mat but you'll get even colder at night.

2. ounces equals pounds, pounds equal pain. Every ounce counts when you're carrying it.

One of the most forgettable days was when we went on a 3 day patrol and had to bring everything to sustain us for 3 days. I carried 24 bottles of water and 6 MREs with me. Who wants to walk miles with a case of water on their back? Of course I drank it over the course of those 3 days but that first day was hell carrying all of that stuff.
I read about about combat medics in Vietnam. I studied the effects of Agent Orange on veterans and civilians when I was in graduate school. Your post on the amount of weight carried by a typical infantry soldier is similar to posts described decades ago in the jungles of Vietnam. Over there, they had leeches, bamboo vipers, booby traps, humid heat and rain, mountains and hills, rivers, rice paddies, etc. that just made it difficult to walk. Yet they routinely hiked many kilometers (clicks) through that terrain.

Realistically, heat strokes and other injuries were common: tendinitis, back sprain, etc. War is hell.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:15 PM
 
14,769 posts, read 8,384,272 times
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This is why some of the infantry guys always considered themselves above the other support MOS' such as clerk or mechanic (and rightly so IMO).

These are the grunts that are on the front lines seeking close contact with the enemy, and have the most grueling training.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:42 PM
 
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They might not do it much, but they better be able to if they need to. Train for worst case scenario.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:06 PM
 
5,318 posts, read 5,570,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Blue Sky View Post
Infantry units and especially Airborne units walk a lot and carry a lot, a hell of a lot.
How else are you and what you need to use when you get there going to get there?
It lands with you, you pick it up and carry it.
......... simple really.
Airborne I get, but I just always thought regular infantry traveled around with their convoy or not too far from it. Convoy being with wheeled vehicles. Even in ancient times armies had horse drawn carriages, or where they could, they take boats to get as close as possible to destination.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:08 PM
 
5,318 posts, read 5,570,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
This is why some of the infantry guys always considered themselves above the other support MOS' such as clerk or mechanic (and rightly so IMO).

These are the grunts that are on the front lines seeking close contact with the enemy, and have the most grueling training.
But why have them literally carry their stuff? May as well make the clerks, logistics/delivery guys carry it. Their job is safer so dont need to be well rested, unless they too get attacked. The regular combat infantry you need to be fresh when the shooting starts.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:10 PM
 
5,318 posts, read 5,570,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
They might not do it much, but they better be able to if they need to. Train for worst case scenario.
That I can understand.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Elysium
5,739 posts, read 3,036,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
But why have them literally carry their stuff? May as well make the clerks, logistics/delivery guys carry it. Their job is safer so dont need to be well rested, unless they too get attacked. The regular combat infantry you need to be fresh when the shooting starts.
If you are asking does the 10th Mountain or any other "Light Division" march from the airbase to their forward operating base with full packs and those back breaking loads, no they do not. Unless enemy action requires it like the British losing most of their helicopters to an airstrike and their Para's and Marines had to march across an entire island in the Falklands.

In a specific mission, and the need for stealth or the need politically to present a lower profile might call for the tactical march in. And not wanting to be caught too light like the Rangers in the BlackHawk Down incident in Mogadishu the load grows and grows to the absolute human limits to carry.
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