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Old 11-10-2017, 11:17 PM
 
1 posts, read 297 times
Reputation: 10

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Hello. I am 18, straight out of high school and looking to join the military in a job that would need a Top Security Clearance.
I have spoken to both the Air Force Reserves and the Army Reserves in regards to recruitment.
When I was 15 years old, I was arrested for Battery/Assault/Criminal Damage < $1000. However, no charges were filed nor was anything else filed. I was detained for 2 hours, spoke to a counselor, and then got to go home with no follow-up.
I have disclosed this to both of the recruiters; however, the AF is telling me I need a moral waiver. The Army advises I do not need a waiver, and that if I decide to attempt to use a waiver, it will screw me over because all branches can see if I get denied.
I set up a meeting to meet with my AF recruiter next week.
Does anyone have any information about why I would need a moral waiver for one branch and not the other?

Additionally, I have quite the medical history in regards to surgeries. I have been cleared by all my doctors since 2016 though. The Air Force is once again advising I need a medical waiver for this as well. But the Army says I do not. Any suggestions on this?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-11-2017, 09:46 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,884 posts, read 8,310,412 times
Reputation: 3918
I sent you a PM, but essentially the Army is going to tell you to lie and conceal information. This is a horrible idea. With the clearance you want, the investigators will interview your friends and family, so they will also have to lie to a Federal investigator to keep you from getting caught in your lie.

The Army will never see if your waiver for the Air Force got approved or denied, and that has nothing at all to do with if the Army approves you. The Army is telling you a big story. They need your offense to be completely hidden so no one knows. If the Air Force runs a waiver, it will be in your records at MEPS so then you can't pretend it didn't happen and you'll need an Army waiver. This is the correct and honest way to proceed, the Army just doesn't feel like doing a waiver.

Same scenario about the medical stuff.

Please see my PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
528 posts, read 301,450 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
I sent you a PM, but essentially the Army is going to tell you to lie and conceal information.
Really? You are going to read an anonymous post and generalize that the Army tells people to "lie and conceal information"?

Unprofessional. You don't need to insult and disparage the Army to make your easy mission.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
28,891 posts, read 15,667,546 times
Reputation: 11222
Quote:
Originally Posted by taddy233 View Post
Hello. I am 18, straight out of high school and looking to join the military in a job that would need a Top Security Clearance.
I have spoken to both the Air Force Reserves and the Army Reserves in regards to recruitment.
When I was 15 years old, I was arrested for Battery/Assault/Criminal Damage < $1000. However, no charges were filed nor was anything else filed. I was detained for 2 hours, spoke to a counselor, and then got to go home with no follow-up.
I have disclosed this to both of the recruiters; however, the AF is telling me I need a moral waiver. The Army advises I do not need a waiver, and that if I decide to attempt to use a waiver, it will screw me over because all branches can see if I get denied.
I set up a meeting to meet with my AF recruiter next week.
Does anyone have any information about why I would need a moral waiver for one branch and not the other?

Additionally, I have quite the medical history in regards to surgeries. I have been cleared by all my doctors since 2016 though. The Air Force is once again advising I need a medical waiver for this as well. But the Army says I do not. Any suggestions on this?

Thanks in advance!
I think you stand a decent chance to get a moral waiver based on the bold.

As long as you successfully complete recruit training, etc, then you'll be judged on your performance. It won't be a major issue in the future.

If I remember this correctly, Only a military recruiter can initiate a moral waiver request. Keep in mind this is the recruiter's decision, not yours. There is no right to have a moral waiver processed. If the recruiter doesn't think there is a good chance of approval, he/she doesn't have to waste time by submitting one on your behalf.​

You need to talk to a recruiter, and it looks like you really did not have any criminal history, so I see no reasons why you cannot get a moral waiver.

Also, keep in mind that If they are doing well meeting their recruiting numbers, the chances of waiver consideration/approval go down. If the service is struggling to meet their recruiting needs, the chances of waiver consideration/approval goes up.

P.S., Juvenile felonies that involved violence will not get a waiver (I think), but there was no charge filed,I assume you would be okay. Please talk to a recruiter.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:24 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,024 posts, read 35,307,917 times
Reputation: 26729
Crushing demands of job lead some Air Force recruiters to falsify reports
By: Stephen Losey   September 1, 2014
https://www.airforcetimes.com/educat...lsify-reports/

Quote:

Air Force recruiting is plagued by a longstanding epidemic of falsifying records, according to multiple recruiters around the country.

And some recruiting supervisors tacitly encourage overworked and undermanned recruiters to falsify their reports ó a practice commonly known as pencil-whipping ó as a way to keep up with requirements that leave recruiters working brutally long hours, eight current and former recruiters said in interviews with Air Force Times.

Recruiters who don't cut corners and try to do everything by the book said they are chewed out for not getting everything done and their performance evaluations and chances for promotion suffer.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:04 AM
 
485 posts, read 143,587 times
Reputation: 697
Army needs an additional 80,000 soldiers in this fiscal year alone. They are granting waivers left and right, not to mention that they have over 60 million in bonuses to give out. I'd go Army, and get the highest bonus you can.


Don't lie.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Fuquay Varina
3,714 posts, read 5,465,411 times
Reputation: 8198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
Crushing demands of job lead some Air Force recruiters to falsify reports
By: Stephen Losey   September 1, 2014
https://www.airforcetimes.com/educat...lsify-reports/
Not surprised by this at all! Glad to see its finally coming to light!
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:01 PM
 
Location: The wild horse filled region of Atropia.
67 posts, read 23,967 times
Reputation: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVREDLEG View Post
Really? You are going to read an anonymous post and generalize that the Army tells people to "lie and conceal information"?

Unprofessional. You don't need to insult and disparage the Army to make your easy mission.
She has made similar blanket statements in at least one other thread that I was bored enough to read.

Still, the overall premise that some unethical recruiters will tell the applicant to conceal information is true. That isn't limited to one service, component, or geographic location though.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:06 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,884 posts, read 8,310,412 times
Reputation: 3918
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVREDLEG View Post
Really? You are going to read an anonymous post and generalize that the Army tells people to "lie and conceal information"?

Unprofessional. You don't need to insult and disparage the Army to make your easy mission.
I wasn't speaking generally. I was speaking to HIS situation.

The absolute ONLY way the Army's advice makes sense is if he gets told to lie.

The Air Force doing a waiver has zero bearing on the Army's need to do a waiver and that is an ACTUAL lie. The Army can HIDE the offense if the Air Force doesn't do a waiver. Once the Air Force does a waiver, MEPS will know about the offense, meaning the Army can't hide it.

Legitimately, this one Army recruiter is going to tell this one applicant to lie. I wasn't speaking generally.

The Air Force and Army waiver process is completely seperate and an Air Force waiver has no bearing on anything int he Army... except when MEPS finds out about an offense so the Army can't conceal it.

The Army and the Air Force use MEPS, and if you need a medical waiver for condition X with one branch, you need it for ALLLLLL branches. The only way the Army doesn't have to do a medical waiver is if they don't tell MEPS. If the Air Force tells MEPS, MEPS knows, and will make the Army do a waiver.

LITERALLY, the only way this scenario makes sense is if the Army plans to conceal information. Otherwise, what the Air Force does doesn't matter.

Once MEPS knows about a law violation or medical condition, all branches have to act on the shared information. The Army is worried about MEPS finding out, because that prevents their plans to hide the information.

There is no other way the OPs post makes sense.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:09 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,884 posts, read 8,310,412 times
Reputation: 3918
Quote:
Originally Posted by abnfdc View Post
She has made similar blanket statements in at least one other thread that I was bored enough to read.

Still, the overall premise that some unethical recruiters will tell the applicant to conceal information is true. That isn't limited to one service, component, or geographic location though.
No, LITERALLY, the only way the original poster's post makes sense is if the Army is planning to hide info... at least this one particular Army recruiter.

There are dishonest Air Force recruiters, and there are honest Army recruiters. I am not speaking generally. I'm speaking about this situation.

The Army recruiter's warnings make zero sense unless the goal is for the Army to conceal the information.

This isn't a blanket statement, this is a specific answer to the OP's specific question about why the advice vary's so much between two recruiters.
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