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Old 12-22-2017, 07:49 AM
 
10,207 posts, read 7,304,785 times
Reputation: 17914

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I manage facilities at a base. Among other facilities, the barracks are my AOR.

I'm currently in the process of modifying an area of a previously all-male barracks to accommodate females for safety reasons. Just following established regulations. Requirements is my department.

I don't think it's practical (or fair) to enlist those who are transitioning.
If they are fully transitioned, then fine. (personal beliefs aside) Because, theoretically, they have changed from female to male or from male to female. So they switched genders. Now you are a guy. You have to have a guy roommate. Right? Or... do you still have female anatomy and...

So now you're female. Okay, fine. You've still got the strength of a man and do you or do you not have a penis? So you're going to room with a female? Regardless?

If you think "the military has this all sorted out" you're wrong. It's not just the infringement on the beliefs of others that this is wrong - because that seems to be a moot point. It's the possibility of placing people on both sides of the fence in harms way. Maybe I'm overreacting by thinking "disaster waiting to happen".

As usual, it seems the military will be used as guinea pigs.

Any thoughts on practical solutions without being disrespectful and having this thread closed down?
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,534 posts, read 59,013,288 times
Reputation: 26422
I do not think anyone knows the answers to these issues. I rely on people who are into this whole PC labeling stuff to tell me what is right and then decide whether I will accept their position. However their positions are inconsistent, amorphous and often conflicting. Thirty three different people will tell you thirty three different responses each believing anything other than their interpretation is abhorrent and insensitive.

The US military is not alone in trying to sort this stuff out. We just spent months trying to work out new policies for church youth group sleep over and overnight(s) mission trips. The greater policy strictly prohibits having same genders sleeping or showering in the same room. We had two youth announce they are now the other gender. One is working on getting into the transition process, the other, after a year changed their mind and went back to their native gender.

We did not find any ready answers. The first step was to cancel all overnight activities until we got it sorted out. Ultimately we decided the transgender people would sleep in the room with their declared gender, but we would need to notify all parents of this. We notify the parents of this generally, not of a specific person or even a specific event or trip. Just tell them this is our policy and how it will be handled. However they must declare an alternate gender prior to the trip and our youth director would need to meet with the parents to discuss it. As for showers, we just decided we would cancel any trips that required the kids to use common showers (i.e. no individual stalls). We used to have them shower in their swimsuits but that does not work here. So, finally we just decided to cancel any trips that did not allow individual showers and find other places for mission work for youth.

We still have to deal with a perceived fake declaration of an alternate gender. Since that has not happened, we simply decided to deal with it if it comes up. For now the check on this is that last minute declarations will not be accepted and a meeting with the parents is required. It is a mess for every organization.

Some parents will likely pull their kids out of youth activities because they do not want their daughter sleeping in a room with a kid who has a penis, or just because the whole thing upsets them. The military will undoubtedly lose some recruits because of this too. The military may gain some recruits who are transgender but were afraid to join up and lose some because they do not want to be involved in close relationship with transgender people. No one will ever know whether they gain or lose more people, but there really is not choice. It has to be addressed and addressed in a way that does not generate litigation.
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Old 12-22-2017, 11:32 AM
 
5,082 posts, read 5,981,124 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
I manage facilities at a base. Among other facilities, the barracks are my AOR.

I'm currently in the process of modifying an area of a previously all-male barracks to accommodate females for safety reasons. Just following established regulations. Requirements is my department.

I don't think it's practical (or fair) to enlist those who are transitioning.
If they are fully transitioned, then fine. (personal beliefs aside) Because, theoretically, they have changed from female to male or from male to female. So they switched genders. Now you are a guy. You have to have a guy roommate. Right? Or... do you still have female anatomy and...

So now you're female. Okay, fine. You've still got the strength of a man and do you or do you not have a penis? So you're going to room with a female? Regardless?

If you think "the military has this all sorted out" you're wrong. It's not just the infringement on the beliefs of others that this is wrong - because that seems to be a moot point. It's the possibility of placing people on both sides of the fence in harms way. Maybe I'm overreacting by thinking "disaster waiting to happen".

As usual, it seems the military will be used as guinea pigs.

Any thoughts on practical solutions without being disrespectful and having this thread closed down?
Add to this the long term medical costs to maintain new gender and through the years at the VA. $$$$
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:53 PM
 
10,207 posts, read 7,304,785 times
Reputation: 17914
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldnorthstate View Post
Add to this the long term medical costs to maintain new gender and through the years at the VA. $$$$
That's why it only seems reasonable to only allow those who have completed the process to join. There are so many medical issues that can prevent someone from joining the military. Those who are transitioning are in the middle of a biological upheaval. Be done with it, then join - if you're qualified.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:48 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,124 posts, read 9,101,415 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
I manage facilities at a base. Among other facilities, the barracks are my AOR.

I'm currently in the process of modifying an area of a previously all-male barracks to accommodate females for safety reasons. Just following established regulations. Requirements is my department.

I don't think it's practical (or fair) to enlist those who are transitioning.
If they are fully transitioned, then fine. (personal beliefs aside) Because, theoretically, they have changed from female to male or from male to female. So they switched genders. Now you are a guy. You have to have a guy roommate. Right? Or... do you still have female anatomy and...

So now you're female. Okay, fine. You've still got the strength of a man and do you or do you not have a penis? So you're going to room with a female? Regardless?

If you think "the military has this all sorted out" you're wrong. It's not just the infringement on the beliefs of others that this is wrong - because that seems to be a moot point. It's the possibility of placing people on both sides of the fence in harms way. Maybe I'm overreacting by thinking "disaster waiting to happen".

As usual, it seems the military will be used as guinea pigs.

Any thoughts on practical solutions without being disrespectful and having this thread closed down?
I am a recruiter. The guidance I have says they have to be fully transitioned and "Stable" In their new gender for 2 years to be recruited. I don't have any real experience yet to know how this is actually being applied.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:55 PM
 
10,207 posts, read 7,304,785 times
Reputation: 17914
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
I am a recruiter. The guidance I have says they have to be fully transitioned and "Stable" In their new gender for 2 years to be recruited. I don't have any real experience yet to know how this is actually being applied.
Okay, thanks! (and yes, we all know you're a recruiter )

It's all pretty much up in the air, I guess. I haven't had the training. I guess we're going to have training. Maybe not. I'm just a civilian these days.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:15 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,124 posts, read 9,101,415 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
Okay, thanks! (and yes, we all know you're a recruiter )

It's all pretty much up in the air, I guess. I haven't had the training. I guess we're going to have training. Maybe not. I'm just a civilian these days.
HAHA, I always figure there might be new people here :-)

We have very very little guidance on my end, but the "must be stable in their gender for two years" is the one piece of info we have specific to recruiting. We're told they will be treated as the new gender in ALL ways, housing, fitness, medical, etc.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:01 PM
 
8,746 posts, read 7,211,669 times
Reputation: 11663
Drop trousers, penis to one side, vagina to the other. Either that or make all boot camps, barracks, and ships gender neutral. You in this division you sleep and shower with this division regardless of sex.
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:22 PM
 
10,207 posts, read 7,304,785 times
Reputation: 17914
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Drop trousers, penis to one side, vagina to the other. Either that or make all boot camps, barracks, and ships gender neutral. You in this division you sleep and shower with this division regardless of sex.

Seems so simple.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Lone Star State to Peach State
3,687 posts, read 3,237,876 times
Reputation: 6600
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post

Seems so simple.
If only.
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