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Old 01-27-2018, 09:12 PM
 
3 posts, read 471 times
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Say a guy is infantry, out with his guys doing infantry stuff, they start getting shot at, but say one guy just loses it, and runs away screaming, or just breaks down and starts crying. What kind of punishment would he likely get?
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfragrance View Post
Say a guy is infantry, out with his guys doing infantry stuff, they start getting shot at, but say one guy just loses it, and runs away screaming, or just breaks down and starts crying. What kind of punishment would he likely get?

Depends on who is president. Today he would be in serious trouble. I'll let someone who is more familiar with the UCMJ quote the specific articles.
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
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I am not an expert, but I've been told that Most soldiers that do see combat will not run away except as part of an orderly retreat. So there is no way "running away and cry" could be categorized as normal. It is more dangerous to withdraw in an unorganized manner during a sustained fight then to hunker down. Professionals know that, but poorly trained soldiers do not.

Is everyone that does this a coward? No. I don't think so. It’s hard to say how people will react until they are actually in a situation.

I assume most offenses in general in the military are handled non-judicially.

If he "lost it", I think he should be discharged from the military. I am not sure if he should be given a punishment.

“desertion to evade hazardous duty” is a very serious violation, I don't think what you described fits the definition though. I think he reached the breaking point and he should be discharged.
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:52 PM
 
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It really depends on a lot of factors, most of which if he truly had a mental crisis versus an intent. I cannot see them awarding punishment for someone who truly went mental due to such situation, NJP at the most.
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Old Yesterday, 12:29 AM
 
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The field punishment could be an upside the head smack all the way to a fragging. The official punishment will depend on the outcome of a medical evaluation.
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Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfragrance View Post
Say a guy is infantry, out with his guys doing infantry stuff, they start getting shot at, but say one guy just loses it, and runs away screaming, or just breaks down and starts crying. What kind of punishment would he likely get?
It depends a lot on how his supervisors see it. If they perceive that he suffered a mental breakdown, then they will get him a medical screening to get him help.

If his buddies say that he has been talking about doing this, and planning it, then it will more likely be seen as cowardice or malingering.


If a person has been a constant problem, getting into trouble every week, and needing counseling on a regular basis. His supervisors may be of a mindset that he is not suited to the task. They may hold a grudge based on his long history of being a problem. I have seen this happen to servicemembers a few times in my 20-year career.

On the other hand, if he has been a model solder. His supervisors will likely be of a mindset to give him every possible benefit.

Two individuals can do the same exact thing, and they could receive entirely different outcomes, based entirely on their past behavior and how their actions were perceived by their supervisors.
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Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
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Historically in combat it's been treated as a mental breakdown with removal from the front lines, some kind of brief treatment, and return to combat. If the condition is totally disabling long term treatment in some kind of VA facility. Everyone has a breaking point.


I think during WW2 there was a study that showed that even seasoned troops exposed to constant combat over an extended period of time would experience both a mental and physical breakdown making them unfit for further service without treatment.


There's some old video footage on the internet that shows WWI soldiers being treated for shell shock. Some of them can't speak and have facial and other body spasms. Remember General Patton slapping a soldier in a field hospital in Sicily for cowardice? There were thousands of US troops in WW2 who were treated for breakdowns in combat.
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Old Yesterday, 06:16 PM
 
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There are too many variables and potential outcomes to accurately predict on a message board.

Could be literally nothing, to some sort of discharge discharge, job re-classification, punishment, court martial or anything in between.

Literally impossible to say based on your premise.
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Old Today, 02:33 PM
 
15,844 posts, read 8,274,708 times
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Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
It depends a lot on how his supervisors see it. If they perceive that he suffered a mental breakdown, then they will get him a medical screening to get him help.

If his buddies say that he has been talking about doing this, and planning it, then it will more likely be seen as cowardice or malingering.


If a person has been a constant problem, getting into trouble every week, and needing counseling on a regular basis. His supervisors may be of a mindset that he is not suited to the task. They may hold a grudge based on his long history of being a problem. I have seen this happen to servicemembers a few times in my 20-year career.

On the other hand, if he has been a model solder. His supervisors will likely be of a mindset to give him every possible benefit.

Two individuals can do the same exact thing, and they could receive entirely different outcomes, based entirely on their past behavior and how their actions were perceived by their supervisors.
That is it.

The thing to remember, OP, is that the military justice system is not a philosophical system to be followed like , it's a practical one. It's purpose is to enforce order and discipline in the military.

Therefore, the question before the chain of command is always, "What is the best action to enforce order and discipline in this situation).

The UCMJ is the tool, but it can be used in a variety of ways subject to command authority to meet the goal of enforcing order and discipline.
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Old Today, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
28,501 posts, read 44,943,504 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
That is it.

The thing to remember, OP, is that the military justice system is not a philosophical system to be followed like , it's a practical one. It's purpose is to enforce order and discipline in the military.

Therefore, the question before the chain of command is always, "What is the best action to enforce order and discipline in this situation).

The UCMJ is the tool, but it can be used in a variety of ways subject to command authority to meet the goal of enforcing order and discipline.
Right. People watch too much police shows where they go to great lengths to only prosecute the exact person guilty of a crime.

Military Justice is an expedient system for enforcing order and discipline.

If a crime was committed then in an expedient manner there needs to be someone convicted of that crime. I did 6 years of Law Enforcement duties, at times I had issue with the process. Taking the time to 'prove' the guilt of a person is not expedient.

A 3 year investigation followed by a 2 year prosecution would see all parties out of uniform and long gone before it ever winded down.

Most commands where I served, you only went there on a 3-year set of orders. In an environment where each person is only there for 3 years, you expect that in each year 1/3 of the personnel will rotate out to be replaced by new personnel.
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