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Old 02-12-2018, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,723 posts, read 47,495,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Also a follow up. I don't think it is a bad direction. In fact I like the direction it is going but the key component of the BRS is TSP. TSP is a 401k style savings program that is a payroll deduction and the system will provide a match. When it comes to the savings portion a reservists paycheck is too small to really make a difference. They also do not gain enough points over time to make a difference in their retirement pension either. I don't think that they paid enough attention to part time soldiers. Now I am not saying that they deserve an active duty pension but they do deserve to be considered more than just a part time soldier when they are asked to fill in the gaps that are left by a smaller active duty force.
Part-timers generally do not earn enough money from the DOD to support themselves, or their families. They still require a full-time career somewhere else. At least that was the argument I presented to each of our sons when they were courted by part-time recruiters.

Full-time servicemembers do earn enough to support themselves and generally are not able to have a part-time job on the side. It is the full-timers who rely on their DOD income.

I would think that a part-timer could easily sink all of his DOD income into an investment/TSP plan.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,677 posts, read 4,488,181 times
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Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Part-timers generally do not earn enough money from the DOD to support themselves, or their families. They still require a full-time career somewhere else. At least that was the argument I presented to each of our sons when they were courted by part-time recruiters.

Full-time servicemembers do earn enough to support themselves and generally are not able to have a part-time job on the side. It is the full-timers who rely on their DOD income.

I would think that a part-timer could easily sink all of his DOD income into an investment/TSP plan.
yes if that part timer had a good paying job. I probably could have put all of my paycheck into TSP. However that was my allowance in the 30 years I spent in the national guard. It was a compromise my wife and I came to when we argued about money.

But if you really think on this most part time soldiers with a good job is probably juggling the two career paths. I know a great number who after a few years just fed up with losing income by being at drill. Usually these people were tradesmen like plumbers or worked in the construction field. A lot of them had their own business and so while 4 drill periods might net an E8 almost 400 for the two days they were drilling. $400. would be a losing hand if you make 400 in a single day fixing someone's plumbing problem.

Imagine though you are just an E4 doing this and you own your own plumbing company. You lose money big time. Of course it isn't all about money but it sure helps smooth the edges.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,723 posts, read 47,495,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
yes if that part timer had a good paying job. I probably could have put all of my paycheck into TSP. However that was my allowance in the 30 years I spent in the national guard. It was a compromise my wife and I came to when we argued about money.

But if you really think on this most part time soldiers with a good job is probably juggling the two career paths. I know a great number who after a few years just fed up with losing income by being at drill. Usually these people were tradesmen like plumbers or worked in the construction field. A lot of them had their own business and so while 4 drill periods might net an E8 almost 400 for the two days they were drilling. $400. would be a losing hand if you make 400 in a single day fixing someone's plumbing problem.

Imagine though you are just an E4 doing this and you own your own plumbing company. You lose money big time. Of course it isn't all about money but it sure helps smooth the edges.
I can see that.

I was never exposed to part-timers when I was on sea-duty. My exposure to them was during my shore-duty tours. My shore-duty was Law Enforcement, so the reservists I saw were mostly civilian cops that showed up to do 2-week tours. They were not up on their qualifications, so we could not actually use them in any Law Enforcement context. They would work an 8-hour shift cleaning a closet or something, talking about site-seeing on their off-hours.

Not a bad gig for a sheriff deputy from Missouri to go to Italy for 2 weeks, on the Navy's dime.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:36 PM
 
6,075 posts, read 2,498,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
It is a good system for active duty service members but I am not convinced that it will be as good for reservists and the national guard soldiers. It is highly dependent upon being able to use TSP as a large portion of the retirement and the only way to contribute to TSP is through payroll deductions and a reservists paycheck is not very big. However it is possible to roll over IRA money into TSP so it isn't a complete loss. I am thankful I am not in the accumulation phase anymore.
When I was in the guard it was very clear they get the short end of the stick. After the Iraq and Afghanastan debacles I am surprised any state can even maintain a national gaurd. They are exposed to deployment just as much as regular military but dont get vet pref for fed jobs, retirement, medical, nothing.

The only bennift of guard is to try out the military before going active but I can only imagine that making that transition is fraught with complication as well. If state guard was state only then it would serve its purpose and people would have their reasons for joining it, but to subject guard to federalization without the bennifits is a good way to completely disenfranchine people towards the guard.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,677 posts, read 4,488,181 times
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Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
When I was in the guard it was very clear they get the short end of the stick. After the Iraq and Afghanastan debacles I am surprised any state can even maintain a national gaurd. They are exposed to deployment just as much as regular military but dont get vet pref for fed jobs, retirement, medical, nothing.

The only bennift of guard is to try out the military before going active but I can only imagine that making that transition is fraught with complication as well. If state guard was state only then it would serve its purpose and people would have their reasons for joining it, but to subject guard to federalization without the bennifits is a good way to completely disenfranchine people towards the guard.


First I am sorry you felt slighted while you were in the guard. You are right they are in a tougher situation however all is not as bad as you describe.

I spent 30 years in the guard with a deployment to Iraq. I had almost 8 years of active duty on top of that. I would never suggest trying out the guard to see if they will like the military. I suggest they just jump right in. Also it is harder to go from a reserve component to active duty then it is to go from homeless and civilian to active duty.

Your point about not getting vet preference, retirement, or medical you are all wrong. If you are in the guard or reserves chances are you are going to deploy to a war zone. That alone qualifies you for vet pref. You still can retire after 20 years of service but your retirement is delayed until you reach 60, and is dependent upon how many points you accrue, your rank at the time you begin collecting. As for medical if you are retired (a blue ID card) and collecting a pension you are eligible for Tri-care so that is also debunked.

I agree that states have a difficult time when a unit is deployed. It is a fact of life these days. It puts a strain on the remaining units in the case of a state emergency. Trust me on that I know this dearly. My unit was on the front line after a tornado tore through the state of Massachusetts.

I have a lot of friends who volunteer for deployments to increase their retirement points. It is something I wasn't interested in. I was happy where I was. I would have gone again if ordered to active duty but I was not going to search out a deploying unit like some of my friends.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:45 PM
 
6,075 posts, read 2,498,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
First I am sorry you felt slighted while you were in the guard. You are right they are in a tougher situation however all is not as bad as you describe.

I spent 30 years in the guard with a deployment to Iraq. I had almost 8 years of active duty on top of that. I would never suggest trying out the guard to see if they will like the military. I suggest they just jump right in. Also it is harder to go from a reserve component to active duty then it is to go from homeless and civilian to active duty.

Your point about not getting vet preference, retirement, or medical you are all wrong. If you are in the guard or reserves chances are you are going to deploy to a war zone. That alone qualifies you for vet pref. You still can retire after 20 years of service but your retirement is delayed until you reach 60, and is dependent upon how many points you accrue, your rank at the time you begin collecting. As for medical if you are retired (a blue ID card) and collecting a pension you are eligible for Tri-care so that is also debunked.

I agree that states have a difficult time when a unit is deployed. It is a fact of life these days. It puts a strain on the remaining units in the case of a state emergency. Trust me on that I know this dearly. My unit was on the front line after a tornado tore through the state of Massachusetts.

I have a lot of friends who volunteer for deployments to increase their retirement points. It is something I wasn't interested in. I was happy where I was. I would have gone again if ordered to active duty but I was not going to search out a deploying unit like some of my friends.
You only get all those bennies IF you are deployed, but if you are simply exposed to all the scuttle butt and stress of maybe being deployed but arent then you dont get those points, but you were still exposed. Where as if you are active duty and not deployed you get the points. Not sure if you also loose the other bennies if you never deploy.

I know I joined the state gaurd because ... I wanted to be in the state guard lol. Not because I wanted to fight an oil war (far fewer people deployed to afghanastan than iraq which was the lagit war). Later I learned that I would not even be considered a veteran so I just got out.

If the Iraq war had not existed I might have went active. 120F in the desert when I trained in an arctic environment to enrich oil barrons .... no thanks. I think the Iraq war disenfranchised alot of people and did alot of damage to the military that will take decades to fix.

Problem is there is alot of room for political shenanigans in 4 years, a 2 year + 0 years reserves contract would be nice that way unpopular political decisions would come with tangible consequences - like people leaving the military en mass and waiting till the a$$ hattery was over then go back in. the consent of the military should be required at the lowest levels in order to go to war, like the knights templar.

Last edited by pittsflyer; 02-15-2018 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:49 PM
 
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,677 posts, read 4,488,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
You only get all those bennies IF you are deployed, but if you are simply exposed to all the scuttle butt and stress of maybe being deployed but arent then you dont get those points, but you were still exposed. Where as if you are active duty and not deployed you get the points. Not sure if you also loose the other bennies if you never deploy.

I know I joined the state gaurd because ... I wanted to be in the state guard lol. Not because I wanted to fight an oil war (far fewer people deployed to afghanastan than iraq which was the lagit war). Later I learned that I would not even be considered a veteran so I just got out.

If the Iraq war had not existed I might have went active. 120F in the desert when I trained in an arctic environment to enrich oil barrons .... no thanks. I think the Iraq war disenfranchised alot of people and did alot of damage to the military that will take decades to fix.

Problem is there is alot of room for political shenanigans in 4 years, a 2 year + 0 years reserves contract would be nice that way unpopular political decisions would come with tangible consequences - like people leaving the military en mass and waiting till the a$$ hattery was over then go back in. the consent of the military should be required at the lowest levels in order to go to war, like the knights templar.

1. yes if you do not deploy you don't get points. Agreed
2. you still get to retire just at a reduced rate. But if you get a check that means that much less to accrue for retirement.
3. if you retire and start getting paid you get to Tri-care. If you want to know how valuable that is. Try an annual premium of $571.00 for the same type and copay that I was paying for BCBS at $4000.00 annually.

I am sorry you had such a time in the guard. I found the guard enjoyable. It was my life. It provided me with a great full time job as well. It was a federal job as a technician and a FERS employee. It pains me to know that you just couldn't find yourself a good FERS job. It probably had a lot to do with your choice of careers and your MOS.

As for your last line that the only way we should be able to go to war is the approval of the grunts in uniform like me. It would never do. Nor should we as a people just willy nilly send soldiers off to fight without a clear objective and goal. We should not be sent for nation rebuilding either. The American fighting force is the best in the world. No other nation would be able to stand alone. I include China and Russia. It would take combined forces and they would pay a heavy cost. But I don't want to use our soldiers in wars for nothing either. Oh and one last thing. Don't use that tired line that we went to war in Iraq for big oil. That didn't help the Democrats and it wont help you sway any sympathy here either.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:46 PM
 
6,075 posts, read 2,498,198 times
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Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
1. yes if you do not deploy you don't get points. Agreed
2. you still get to retire just at a reduced rate. But if you get a check that means that much less to accrue for retirement.
3. if you retire and start getting paid you get to Tri-care. If you want to know how valuable that is. Try an annual premium of $571.00 for the same type and copay that I was paying for BCBS at $4000.00 annually.

I am sorry you had such a time in the guard. I found the guard enjoyable. It was my life. It provided me with a great full time job as well. It was a federal job as a technician and a FERS employee. It pains me to know that you just couldn't find yourself a good FERS job. It probably had a lot to do with your choice of careers and your MOS.

As for your last line that the only way we should be able to go to war is the approval of the grunts in uniform like me. It would never do. Nor should we as a people just willy nilly send soldiers off to fight without a clear objective and goal. We should not be sent for nation rebuilding either. The American fighting force is the best in the world. No other nation would be able to stand alone. I include China and Russia. It would take combined forces and they would pay a heavy cost. But I don't want to use our soldiers in wars for nothing either. Oh and one last thing. Don't use that tired line that we went to war in Iraq for big oil. That didn't help the Democrats and it wont help you sway any sympathy here either.
They called those full time gaurd gigs, AGR positions and basically someone had to retire. I had a buddy who was on a wait list for one for, I think it was 4 years and only one slot opened and that was only because someone decided to go OCS and flight, so the list moved one person in 4 years. I got out before my buddy and he eventually got out as well because there was almost no mobility (perhaps that was just an issue with my state in specific though). Luckily for him he was past navy so he had his fed points. I just had a lousy BS degree in chemical engineering, a PE and working on another degree in EE/mathematics lol, no vet points no fed job lol, no fed job in the USA today makes you a mcgig job worker. Now fast forward like 16 years and he has a steady fed job and I am unemployed lol. Who knew that 20 years ago a gig in the navy would be more valuable than an engineering degree, I did not believe it when the recruiters said I could do both, perhaps because they were not willing to put it into writing and I really wanted to be an engineer and then move on to fight school. The military does not like to put stuff in writing though and I had an issue with that.

We had other reasons (none valid) that we went to iraq but big oil most certainly did benefit, BIG time. I dont think a private should be making those decisions but I think a base commander should decide if the effort gets his tanks or his F22's etc. Mostly I just hate sand and heat, I thought really, I am at prime military age and instead of globe trotting to an arctic enviornment we are in the squelcering heat with blowing sand, no thanks pass. Like the Templar did, they all got around a table and decided, there was no guy hiding in a back room issuing orders (ie the president). Our military is the best and most professional in the world and we are rotting from the inside because the actions of the military are heavily dictated by civilians which is a huge problem. The only exception is if the USA is being invaded then we all have skin in the game, but expeditionary globe trotting is another matter in my opinion.

If I were smarter and had it to do over I would have volounteers for a 6 month gig in afghanastan before I got out of the guard, got my vet points and been on my way. Who would have known that we would be in a decade long depression where a 50k a year fed job was so coveted lol.
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,677 posts, read 4,488,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
They called those full time gaurd gigs, AGR positions and basically someone had to retire. I had a buddy who was on a wait list for one for, I think it was 4 years and only one slot opened and that was only because someone decided to go OCS and flight, so the list moved one person in 4 years. I got out before my buddy and he eventually got out as well because there was almost no mobility (perhaps that was just an issue with my state in specific though). Luckily for him he was past navy so he had his fed points. I just had a lousy BS degree in chemical engineering, a PE and working on another degree in EE/mathematics lol, no vet points no fed job lol, no fed job in the USA today makes you a mcgig job worker. Now fast forward like 16 years and he has a steady fed job and I am unemployed lol. Who knew that 20 years ago a gig in the navy would be more valuable than an engineering degree, I did not believe it when the recruiters said I could do both, perhaps because they were not willing to put it into writing and I really wanted to be an engineer and then move on to fight school. The military does not like to put stuff in writing though and I had an issue with that.

We had other reasons (none valid) that we went to iraq but big oil most certainly did benefit, BIG time. I dont think a private should be making those decisions but I think a base commander should decide if the effort gets his tanks or his F22's etc. Mostly I just hate sand and heat, I thought really, I am at prime military age and instead of globe trotting to an arctic enviornment we are in the squelcering heat with blowing sand, no thanks pass. Like the Templar did, they all got around a table and decided, there was no guy hiding in a back room issuing orders (ie the president). Our military is the best and most professional in the world and we are rotting from the inside because the actions of the military are heavily dictated by civilians which is a huge problem. The only exception is if the USA is being invaded then we all have skin in the game, but expeditionary globe trotting is another matter in my opinion.

If I were smarter and had it to do over I would have volounteers for a 6 month gig in afghanastan before I got out of the guard, got my vet points and been on my way. Who would have known that we would be in a decade long depression where a 50k a year fed job was so coveted lol.
I was not AGR. I was a dual status soldier. I was a federal employee. I worked for the Army National Guard. Most of these are logistic in nature meaning they were there to support the part time force by repairing equipment. Some of them are IT in nature. Not everyone can get them true. But I never heard of a wait list. The system requires you to apply for the positions whether they are ARG or technician.

We as a military have to be accountable to our civilian authority or we become a North Korea.

I wish you would have known me while you were in. I could have assisted you in finding a way through the trouble you found. I helped many soldiers find the right mixture of fun and seriousness. I think that is why it took me 30 years to become a 1SG.
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