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Old 02-13-2018, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,660 posts, read 4,407,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Considering most BS engineering degree programs are some where around 120-130 credit hours if someone is only taking 6 credits a semester that puts them on a 20 year plan, best case. How are people pulling this off at all while on active duty, even after they are established?

Or is it taking people 20 years to get the BS, retire from the military and then use the GI bill to get a masters and start a second career? With as much as the military moves you around how do you maintain educational continuity with a university, there is only so much transferring someone can do and that can get muddy about which schools are willing to transfer what etc, having to change to new degree catalogs and perhaps having new requirements pop up and have old classes that are no longer required etc.

I have always heard recruiters talking about "get your degree while you are in" but have never known anyone to have done this. I knew one guy who got a green to gold scholarship but thats full time student.


well first off you are forgetting about qualifying military schools. When I started my BA I was given 39 credit hours from the school I applied at. So a full 1/3 of the requirements were done. I completed my degree in 4.5 years all on line and with work and a family and all the other stuff going on.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:04 PM
 
5,873 posts, read 2,399,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
You've never known anyone, please see this link. The numbers who complete degrees are in the tens of thousands. http://demo.dantespulse.com/_content...tSheetFY15.pdf

Also, AF offers programs to allow you to STOP having work (while continuing to get some pay) and getting full scholarship for engineering (ASCP or AECP, google them), nursing (NECP), PA programs (IPAP), medical school (USUHS), law school (FLEP), and billion other programs like AFIT (Graduate degrees in engineering), SOAR (Regular bachelor's degrees) and many more.
Ok that makes way more sense to me, it sounds like this is mostly limited to the Air Force. Most of the people I knew were Army and the army does not really care about this stuff, you get more points for rifle quals than credits towards a degree.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:12 PM
 
5,873 posts, read 2,399,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallstaff View Post
Here's another very useful tip that I found immensely helpful when I was in the AF.

There are ways of testing out of nearly all the credits you'll need for the first two yrs of college. Plus, schools will also award you, usually elective, credits for courses the you already had to take just for being in the Air Force. That's Two yrs old college in less than six months depending on how you can schedule the tests

These are all perfectly legit, accredited testing credits not 'wallpaper' or whitewash.

Yes, you'll have to be smart enough to past the tests but I thought any reasonably good high school student can score high enough. I took all those tests 12 yrs after I left high school and found them not all that difficult for a reasonably educated adult.

Ask the recruiter about CLEP and Dantes tests. I've been out for a long time they might even have other options nowadays
I specified engineering because engineering programs have very few non technical elective credits required and even in the first 2 years, unless your a complete genius, you wont just be able to test out of calc 1, 2 and 3. Granted I knew one guy who started at Cal Tech in differential equations but he most certainly did not join the military nor would he have survived even AF basic. I was not quite as smart as my cal tech friend but I also did an engineering degree from colorado school of mines and no way could I have done full time military and completed that degree, I had to be on campus pretty much all the time, I did AFROTC and even that was a burden. I am sure there are some super humans amoung us, I just was not seeing how it was possible.

Getting an engineering degree from a top tier institution does not seem to jive with military service. There are some online programs being introduced from GOOD schools but this is a very recent thing. A decade ago most online schools were, as you put it, whitewash sham degrees.

Now days with full online degrees it might be possible but you still have to find test proctors and you may have to get off duty in the middle of the day to go do tests, etc. IF you are having to ask permission and fill out leave paper work for every exam you have to take its going to get to be incredibly burdensome.

This also does not even start to cover the outside of class homework and study requirements even just for one engineering class. sure engineering programs have some bubble gum classes as my late aunt like to put it but not many, most of them are brutal and require an inordinate amount of after class time, going to office hours because you have no idea what is going on, recitations outside of classes, etc.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:19 PM
 
5,873 posts, read 2,399,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
6 credits a semester = 12 or 18 credits a year depending on if you do classes during the summer semester

120/12 = 10 years not 20!

Depending on the branch of military and what your job is, you'll have more free time for classes than others. My cousin physically attended the University of Delaware for a couple years on a part time basis. He was in the Air Force and his shifts were overnight normally so he had free time during the day. Now he has no free time....he's now married with 3 kids and in Alaska!
LOL, of course, still 10 years is a long time and all the same issues exist of transfer credits etc. The odds of being in the same place in the military for 10 years is pretty much nil.

Summer courses can be loaded up for the first 2 years so it may only be 7-8 years which is manageable.

He could do UAA, I am working on a second degree there. Perhaps I should go back and learn to multiple and divide lol.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:28 PM
 
5,873 posts, read 2,399,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodburyWoody View Post
Know your school's degree completion requirements as well. Some are open, some require coursework be completed within a given timeframe (such as seven years).

Also, declare your major. Once you are in a program, you and the college/university are in an agreement on what/which courses make up your degree. This is important as departments change programs from time-to-time and sometimes eliminate programs entirely. If you are actually declared, if the program makes changes you are still bound by the agreement you had (so the classes you have already completed count, should the new program add classes or eliminate some that you already completed) and if a program is eliminated, the college/university is much more likely to find a solution for you to complete your degree if you are already in a program.

Second scenario is rare but happens.

First scenario is more likely as programs are always undergoing changes to keep with the times, especially if a discipline with an accrediting body such as nursing or engineering, where the programs themselves need to be in alignment with the accrediting body (for example, ABET accredited engineering programs go through ABET accreditation review every seven years and may make program changes when renewed; if you are already in the program, you will not have anything new added because of possible new requirements added through renewal).

And if transferring anything in, ALWAYS get acceptance IN WRITING from the department head or undergraduate advisor before you start classes. What Professor Bob says is fine over the phone does not matter if he is no longer department head a year later. Even worse if Professor Bob went on a bender, blew up a lab and was denied tenure and is no longer at the school.
My first degree in chemical engineering did have a 7 year limit so people like me who had to go 4.5 years started to panic because your credits from your freshman year would start to "expire", of course panic with 2.5 years left is irrational but thats when the rumor mill started firing up (if you dont get this class at this time its not offered till the year after, etc). Once you crossed the finish line then your credits became immortal and could be transfered around for purposes of getting a second BS degree or a masters, but if you did not cross that finish line for some reason it could be a bad deal.

I had one friend like that in school who had to retake some 400 level class that was offered every other year (not even every other semester, it skipped an entire year). It was a degree program in mining, the school keeps it because their roots are in mining but they only graduate like 4 people a year so getting some of the 400 level classes is getting harder and harder. He crossed the finish like 3 months before his credits were going to start recycling (graduated in May and credit recycling would have started in August). I dont know if they made exceptions for military people.

The school I am in now does not recycle credits. However, all this being said, I could not imagine dealing with the deployment scuttle butt, rigors of military service, 6am PT and all the rest and still keep track of all the ins and outs of university credits, proctored exams and the countless hours of study.

My hat is off to those who did it.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:36 PM
 
5,873 posts, read 2,399,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
well first off you are forgetting about qualifying military schools. When I started my BA I was given 39 credit hours from the school I applied at. So a full 1/3 of the requirements were done. I completed my degree in 4.5 years all on line and with work and a family and all the other stuff going on.
I dont think most engineering programs allow that, you might get 6-9 credits waived but that was all the non technical elective classes we had to take. All the rest were very specific very difficult classes with no substitutions.

But still 9 credits is better than nothing and as another poster stated I did my math wrong

So 111/12 = 9.25 and if you can take 6 credits per summer the first 2 years (most 300-400 level classes are not offered in summer) then your looking at 99/12 = 8.25 years. That kind of sucks but its possible.

I could not imagine 8.25 years of groveling for leave to take classes and dealing with military priorities trying to accomplish credits, unless the AF is incredibly accommodating. I know the Army wasent, they technically had all the same programs, except you did not get the time off, so it was functionally impossible (at least for engineering).

Also when you start getting into 300-400 level classes 6 credits while working full time is a massive amount of work. When I was working full time, I could only take 3 credits and be successful (A or B level work). The classes were just to involved. I am taking partial differential equations now as part of the pre-requisites for a math heavy electrical engineering masters, its pretty rough lol. fun but alot of hours, plus having to learn software to model problems etc.

Because I was not able to juggle military and school I now dont have vet pref so I am pretty much screwed lol.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,573 posts, read 47,099,350 times
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Every military school that you attend will matriculate into college credits.

CLEP is a good program to use. But a few college textbooks on whatever topics and schedule CLEP tests on those topics. Read the textbooks and take the tests at the end of each chapter. When you are done take the CLEP tests.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:18 PM
 
4,507 posts, read 2,503,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallstaff View Post
Here's another very useful tip that I found immensely helpful when I was in the AF.

There are ways of testing out of nearly all the credits you'll need for the first two yrs of college. Plus, schools will also award you, usually elective, credits for courses the you already had to take just for being in the Air Force. That's Two yrs old college in less than six months depending on how you can schedule the tests

These are all perfectly legit, accredited testing credits not 'wallpaper' or whitewash.

Yes, you'll have to be smart enough to past the tests but I thought any reasonably good high school student can score high enough. I took all those tests 12 yrs after I left high school and found them not all that difficult for a reasonably educated adult.

Ask the recruiter about CLEP and Dantes tests. I've been out for a long time they might even have other options nowadays
This. Free testing too.

It is possible for a few accredited colleges in the US to meet nearly all business degree requirements through testing. Excelsior College is one.

If you have solid Spanish, German or French language skills you can get up to 12 credits in a single CLEP.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:20 PM
 
4,507 posts, read 2,503,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Every military school that you attend will matriculate into college credits.

CLEP is a good program to use. But a few college textbooks on whatever topics and schedule CLEP tests on those topics. Read the textbooks and take the tests at the end of each chapter. When you are done take the CLEP tests.
Sites like InstantCert also help through flashcards for specific CLEP exams. I know people who used it and passed without any other materials. CLEP also provide sample exams.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,305 posts, read 9,908,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
LOL, of course, still 10 years is a long time and all the same issues exist of transfer credits etc. The odds of being in the same place in the military for 10 years is pretty much nil.

Summer courses can be loaded up for the first 2 years so it may only be 7-8 years which is manageable.

He could do UAA, I am working on a second degree there. Perhaps I should go back and learn to multiple and divide lol.
There's also the CLEP and DANTES exams which cover quite a bit of the liberal arts portion of many degrees. Military members frequently get work experience credit as well. Of course, this depends on their program and job.

Excelsior College has a major department just for military degrees. You must be an active military member to enroll in those programs. You can earn a BS in nuclear engineering. A good port of the lower level coursework is covered by military work experience credit. Even a portion of the upper levels are covered by military work experience. Military life isn't the same as civilian life.
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