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Old 07-30-2018, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
3,413 posts, read 804,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Or get yourself or someone else killed. I remember one of my post-military civilian bosses who had been a sailor on a carrier deck remarking to me, "One thing I know every day on this job--no matter how bad I screw up, nobody will get killed." He also said:
I'd say luckily most decisions that could get someone killed are left up to senior level officers. Rarely is an enlisted member trusted with such responsibility. Ofcourse some enlisted person could "leave a wrench in an engine" I suppose but I doubt such mistakes aren't caught or have redundant fail-safes.
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Old 07-30-2018, 06:22 PM
 
534 posts, read 93,229 times
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Some countries are used to being at war.

I recall in the late 1980's a North Vietnam general was being interviewed on a documentary about the Vietnam War.
He was asked if he ever felt they would lose.

"No, he said. It might take 10 years,25 years,75 years, or 100 years.
But we would win "

Different cultures view wars differently.
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:01 PM
 
17,263 posts, read 9,404,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I'd say luckily most decisions that could get someone killed are left up to senior level officers. Rarely is an enlisted member trusted with such responsibility. Ofcourse some enlisted person could "leave a wrench in an engine" I suppose but I doubt such mistakes aren't caught or have redundant fail-safes.
A whole lot of military enlisted are doing jobs in which a screw-up can get people killed. Practically anyone turning a wrench on a flightline. Soldiers barreling through training areas in heavy vehicles. Parachute packers. Squadron intel assisting in mission planning. Of course, many more. Basically anyone working with or around heavy, fast machinery--and the military will put younger people in those situations than you'd normally find in civilian occupations.

Can happen in a moment in a hundred different ways with carrier flightdeck crew.

In my own job, it was very easy to kill the wrong people during wartime. "We paint the mark of destruction on the foreheads of our enemies," and all that rot.
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:03 PM
 
17,263 posts, read 9,404,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melchisedec View Post
Some countries are used to being at war.

I recall in the late 1980's a North Vietnam general was being interviewed on a documentary about the Vietnam War.
He was asked if he ever felt they would lose.

"No, he said. It might take 10 years,25 years,75 years, or 100 years.
But we would win "

Different cultures view wars differently.
And those old officers are dismayed that Vietnamese Millennials are as oblivious to their war as Americans are to the Korean War.
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:46 PM
 
1,540 posts, read 596,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad01 View Post
True but what makes them more prone to this vs troops from other countries ?

and even troops of WW1 WW2 generation?
It isn't more prevalent thant WWI and WW II vets. Those guys hid it better, in large part because they were less subject to legal action (as fighting, say bar fights, were considered just a manly foible), and in point of fact there was an awful lot of nearly totally debilitating shell shock from WWI in particular.

Current generations aren't "more prone" to depression and PTSD. The rest of us are just better at spotting it.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:19 PM
 
12,296 posts, read 11,747,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I'd say luckily most decisions that could get someone killed are left up to senior level officers. Rarely is an enlisted member trusted with such responsibility. Ofcourse some enlisted person could "leave a wrench in an engine" I suppose but I doubt such mistakes aren't caught or have redundant fail-safes.
Lol, uh, no...

Enlisted often have an incredible amount of responsibility that can potentially injure or kill someone. Anything from QA checks, to security, to combat engagement, to damage control, enlisted have a lot of responsibility in this regard.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
5,459 posts, read 2,858,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Lol, uh, no...

Enlisted often have an incredible amount of responsibility that can potentially injure or kill someone. Anything from QA checks, to security, to combat engagement, to damage control, enlisted have a lot of responsibility in this regard.

As a C-130 loadmaster I was responsible for the weight and balance calculation and the securing of all cargo. Screw either of those up and you could easily destroy the airplane and kill everyone onboard.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:42 AM
 
8,662 posts, read 7,105,967 times
Reputation: 11560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I'd say luckily most decisions that could get someone killed are left up to senior level officers. Rarely is an enlisted member trusted with such responsibility. Ofcourse some enlisted person could "leave a wrench in an engine" I suppose but I doubt such mistakes aren't caught or have redundant fail-safes.
In October 1990 the USS Iwo Jima LPH-2 has a major steam leak in the fire room (aka boiler room). Six sailors died instantly and four sailors died later after having escaped alive. Over 600 psi and over 800 degree superheated steam filled the three story boiler room in seconds. A valve bonnet weighing over 200 lbs was thrown across the boiler room when the nuts failed. Investigation found black oxide brass nuts were used to fasten the bonnet to the valve. These nuts look like the steel nuts we used on the main steam system. The enlistedman who QA’ed the work performed by the Bahrainian yard workers signed off on the job without performing the required checks. There was a big push by the ship’s captain to get the ship underway for Desert Shield. This big push led to short cuts being and mistakes being made. Because of this ten sailors, including the one who signed off on the repair work, were killed and two officers were eventually forced into retirement, the chief engineer and later the captain. It is enlisted sailors who work with munitions, aircraft repairs, and other very dangerous work which could get other people killed if not performed properly. Just dropping the anchor can be dangerous. Don’t know about today but the synthetic mooring lines could “snap back” causing loss of limbs or lives.
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:37 AM
 
304 posts, read 109,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad01 View Post
True but what makes them more prone to this vs troops from other countries ?

and even troops of WW1 WW2 generation?
What makes you think our soldiers are more prone to problems than other countries soldiers?
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:23 AM
 
Location: AZ
547 posts, read 276,911 times
Reputation: 2221
We are prone to coming up with a one size fits all. I reject that. Each suicide knows their “why” and trying to attach some to veteran status is nuts imop. But we do it all the time with our psychological mumbo jumbo. “He murdered his family because of his own abuse as a child.” Who really knows? People live with their own demons. If I do myself in is it because of being a vet? A widower? Financial issues? Opioid addiction due to chronic pain? What difference does it make?
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