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I’m glad that’s not correct (that you were fishing) and you didn’t fall for that line of reasoning about not disclosing. We need service members with high levels of ethics driven internally, not by threats. By disclosing fully and openly to the Chief when he called you, you probably just helped your case significantly. Chiefs have a LOT of pull in the Navy.
When he initially called me, I was seeing my mother in a local nursing home, which has relatively poor cell service. Therefore I did not realize who I was actually talking to (the 'Chief' part) until I asked him again, mid-conversation, who I was speaking to..
I told him upfront that I had no issue with confronting reality and that I would be more comfortable with not being accepted or able to obtain a waiver than not telling the whole truth. Assuming he was writing things down, I elaborated on the nature of my offences. The Chief asked me something along the lines of 'So you'd say you've moved beyond your mistakes and are ready to take the steps to join the United States Navy.' Of course, I said yes.
Furthermore, he pressed as to what the recruiter said I should do. I gave in detail what occurred throughout the process of the recruiter trying to push me through MEPS by hinting towards me to be dishonest with my record on paper. I was honest with him and told him bluntly that I don't want my name to be associated with said recruiter's repercussions (if any.) He said that he would be following up with said recruiter.
Our conversation was cut short due to people entering a room that I was in, and I asked if I could call him right back. I did, and no answer. I'll be calling again tomorrow.
1. Try to go officer
2. Apply for waivers
3. Those convictions may show up on background check for a security clearance so you have to be honest and upfront
Sometimes it happens. If you complete the community service/fine/deferred adjudication the judge will dismiss the case or the seal/expunged records will "fall off"
I know this because I thought I had something on my record as well and it turns out I was clean.
Thank you for the advice. I was told by the only individual who has physical copies of my expungement paperwork that every state deals with the 'falling off' differently. I hope that me being truthful and honest will work to my advantage, even if nothing is able to be retrieved through background checks ..Although I have a good feeling fingerprint records are permanent.
With the low GPA and "colorful past", you may want to have a good think about how the military may not be a very good job for you.
Quoted from Navy CyberSpace:
Baccalaureate Degree Completion Program (BDCP) (OCS)
" Candidates must fall within one of the following two categories:
Have completed the requirements for a baccalaureate degree at an accredited college or university in the United States.
Be enrolled in or accepted for transfer to a regionally accredited four-year college or university with at least 30 semester or 45 quarter hours of credit from an accredited college or university.
Applicants must have completed two academic terms of a normal schedule of courses with a cumulative grade point average (GPA) of at least a 2.7 on a 4.0 scale. No GPA waivers will be granted. "
I've been pondering the idea of enlisting in the Navy for a few years now. I am 24 years old and I have a Bachelor's degree. So here's the scoop:
After speaking to several recruiters as well as friends/family who have served in different branches, I can't seem to conjure a viable answer as to what I should do.
I was arrested in 2014 for simple possession of marijuana (.08 g) and in 2016 I was arrested for disorderly conduct and public intox. Both times, during college, I was placed on probation and successfully completed the "ARD" program. I paid my fines in a timely manner and have been clean since. I have learned from my mistakes and deeply regret my actions and poor decisions made in college.
After conducting several background checks (criminal, municipal etc), and calling the courthouse in which my documents were at, there is no record as per expungement. The first thing I said to my recruiter, right off the bat, was "I'd like to weigh my options of joining the Navy, however I have legal stipulations that I'd like to find out if they will affect my enlistment or obtaining of security clearance" ..or something along those lines. After the recruiter ran a quick background check, and nothing came up, he proceeded to, in a nutshell, hint at me to not tell the truth on enlistment paperwork - including but not limited to answering "no" to questions such as "have you ever been arrested" or "have you ever been convicted of a crime.." It didn't sit well with me.
I chose to follow up with our previous meeting stating I wanted to amend paperwork stating false information. He then explained to me that "if your record was expunged, it's as if it never happened, so therefore you don't have to disclose it." That doesn't seem right. I then replied "even if I made it through MEPS without anyone finding so-called "dirt", when it comes to obtaining security clearance, there's no such thing as a "sealed record"" His reply was something along the lines of "You would bring up your past offences and/or expungement at the time of your security clearance" ..which doesn't make sense to me. He proceeded to tell me that I would be put in a holding pattern for up to months if I requested and filled out waiver information.
Also I think it's relevant that I've talked to about a dozen individuals regarding my dilemma. I've heard "go with your gut and tell them the truth" as well as "My friend had an expunged record, and was still able to obtain security clearance."
I'd like some guidance as to
1. Is this true what the recruiter is telling me, or BS?
and
2. How should I proceed in this matter?
I am an honest person. I went in knowing I wanted to go about enlistment in an honest fashion, even though there may or may not be anything on paper (besides an FBI-level, potentially) regarding my previous arrests.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all in advance for your help.
I am a recruiter, but not for the Navy. However, because you LIED on federal forms and hid information, it can make your clearance harder to get now, but not impossible. Lots of people get clearances after criminal acts, but often it is because of their honesty about the act. A clearance isn't reserved for perfect people, it is reserved for HONEST and TRUSTWORTHY people.
Waivers can take months. Telling the truth now will cause you to need a waiver. The commander in charge of giving the waiver may hold your initial dishonesty against you. I know you think you were honest because you told your recruiter- doesn't matter, you lied on paperwork, and you lied at MEPS.
When a question says "were you ever arrested" that is WILDLY different than "Do you have an arrest record." You don't have an arrest record, but you were arrested.
Your recruiter can't run an FBI/Federal Background check, so them seeing a clean record doesn't mean the security clearance process won't turn it up. In fact, hiding expunged crimes is a very common reason for clearances to be denied. See here: https://news.clearancejobs.com/2015/...records-sf-86/
For the Air Force, once an applicant goes to basic training, their recruiter made goal. If they later are denied a clearance, it has zero effect on their recruiter. I think it is the same for the Navy. Your recruiter has nothing to risk. You took all the risk.
If I were you, I'd list it now, do the waiver, and explain yourself as a human to the investigator during your clearance.
On the security clearance, lying or withholding the truth is considered far worse than anything if you may have actually done. The form asks, in different words, if you have *ever* been arrested. You have. To say otherwise is untruthful.
He’s telling you to withhold now because it’s easier for him, not better for you.
Finally, when you give full and complete answers, you never have to keep your stories straight. There’s only one story-the truth. Get your career started off right-truthfully.
Right; I think they refer to it as an adjudication. I spoke to the only person with physical copies of my expungement paperwork yesterday - she eluded that through the expungement process, I legally don't have to disclose I was convicted of anything. "As if it never happened".
You don't legally have to disclose it. You won't go to jail for lying. You won't receive any legal action against you from OPM, but you can be denied a clearance. Legally, you can say no on the form, and then legally, they can slap a big giant "DENIED" on your clearance.
You can legally file bankruptcy, but that can result in a clearance denial.
You can legally have relatives in Iran that you visit monthly, but that may result in a clearance denial.
Waivers can take months. Telling the truth now will cause you to need a waiver. The commander in charge of giving the waiver may hold your initial dishonesty against you. I know you think you were honest because you told your recruiter- doesn't matter, you lied on paperwork, and you lied at MEPS.
At no point did I say I lied at MEPS; you're accusing me of something that hasn't occurred. I haven't even been to MEPS, let alone sign anything besides an 'initial pre-screening' on the day I initially talked to the recruiter. As stated before, this was not the SF 86 form.
Where. Are. You. Getting. This? ..I never applied for security clearance, a waiver, or have been through MEPS. The matter at hand, that was clearly stated, was:
1. Is this (what the recruiter has told me) BS and
2. How do I go about resolving this
Several individuals have given me worthwhile advice on what I need to do to iron this out - advice that I truly appreciate.
You're right. I apologize. I thought you had gone to MEPS. The forms you do at MEPS equate to the security clearance forms. This is totally my mistake. So then that's great news for you, as you haven't done the forms yet.
Sorry for my misunderstanding.
As such, obviously my opinion would be not to withhold it at MEPS (where they do process your security clearance forms in most cases).
I think I got confused because you said you wanted to amend "paperwork" so my brain just jumped to the actual/real paperwork that gets completed.
I try to be very clear and very emphatic because so many people get the terrible advice to withhold the info (like the court clerk told you that you could do) and I've seen careers derailed because of it, so I do tend to over emphasis for the effect because these type of misunderstandings seem to persist through the years.
You're right. I apologize. I thought you had gone to MEPS. The forms you do at MEPS equate to the security clearance forms. This is totally my mistake. So then that's great news for you, as you haven't done the forms yet.
Sorry for my misunderstanding.
As such, obviously my opinion would be not to withhold it at MEPS (where they do process your security clearance forms in most cases).
I think I got confused because you said you wanted to amend "paperwork" so my brain just jumped to the actual/real paperwork that gets completed.
I try to be very clear and very emphatic because so many people get the terrible advice to withhold the info (like the court clerk told you that you could do) and I've seen careers derailed because of it, so I do tend to over emphasis for the effect because these type of misunderstandings seem to persist through the years.
Again. My apologies.
Apology accepted. No worries; you had me confused though.
My last meeting with my recruiter was loaded with convoluted information that didn't add up. That is why I am on this forum - to gain some insight before I decide whether this is the best option. The last thing I want to do is lie my way through MEPS, be interested in a rate that requires security clearance and get booted.
I'm a bad actor, anyways.
I already admitted to the Chief who called me out of the blue that I had been arrested, and that the recruiter was pressuring me to not disclose the simple fact that I was arrested at least once. I really hope that I am able to amend the initial preliminary screening that I signed, or better yet, shred it and start a new one with a new recruiter. The one I'm dealing with rubs me the wrong way. Not sure if that's indicative of recruiters in general, as I'm clearly not well versed military-wise. Still waiting for a call back from the Chief I spoke to. Wish me luck.
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