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Old 10-04-2018, 05:11 AM
 
4 posts, read 719 times
Reputation: 19

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Hi, the CO DQ'd my son and sent for a waiver to the Sg. The Sg came back and said he was DQ'd for reasons that were proven in his records that he doesn't have. They said he had reoccurring pain in his elbow. He doesn't, and actually he went to an orthopedic and they said that everything was good and he would have no problems with it. Also, when he had a concussion a doctor wrote the word migraine and SG said he had a history of migraines. He never had migraines and was never on migraine medication.
I feel as though the SG did not read his records thoroughly or he would have seen the ortho report and he would have noticed there were no medications for migraines.
Is this the final answer that can't be questioned?
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:24 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,176 posts, read 9,190,248 times
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Hold on, if he doesn't have reoccurring pain in his elbow, why did he see an orthopedic doctor? See how that doesn't make sense?

Migraines are the kiss of death. How did you prove that he did not have migraines? Was there a letter from the doctor stating it was a mistake? What did the SG see to show that he didn't have migraines? Some people get migraines yet don't get a prescription for it. You can resubmit an SG waiver with evidence of no migraines such as a letter from the doctor, pharmacy records showing no prescriptions (these are separate from medical records), a letter from you and him that he has never had a migraine, etc. Did you actually go to a pharmacy and get pharmacy records to prove no medications? Even if no medications, that doesn't mean he has never had a migraine.

As for the elbow pain... why was he having it? This is extremely important. If the orthopedic doctor found nothing wrong, that actually increases your chances for a DQ.
If there is elbow pain and a cause, the cause can be addressed and the elbow pain can be solved/healed. If there is no known cause, it can not be addressed and healed- thereby there is a disqualification because the pain has not been solved.

The pain was bad enough to do to a regular doctor, get a referral, and go to the referral? That's a hassle, and generally someone wouldn't do that without a lot of pain. If the orthopedic doctor found nothing wrong, then the reason for the pain is still a mystery. Since no reason has been found, how does the SG know without a shadow of a doubt that the pain will not return in basic training and prevent him from completing push-ups? How many years has it been since the pain stopped? Is there something in the medical record stating "no pain for 5 years" etc?

If the next thing you're going to say is that the pain wasn't that bad and didn't affect anything, then I'll ask again, why see an ortho? If your son is going to see a specialist every time he has a tiny bit of pain, then the military doesn't want him. The military spends a lot of money on medical care and can't have someone seeing specialists every time they have an ache. So, if the pain wasn't that bad, what led to the referral? If the pain was really bad, how could there have been nothing wrong? This implies the doctor wasn't thorough and didn't address the root cause. Either way, this is a huge uphill battle.

The SG needs to know 10000% without a doubt that your son does not get migraines, and does not have any risk of elbow pain surfacing in basic training. Do the medical records paint a picture that would convince a doctor there are no migraines and no risk of reoccurring elbow pain?

The SG's job is disquality anyone who has any medical conditions that could even potentially interfere with basic training. Joint pain and Migraines are two of the biggest reasons people do not make it through basic training. The SG's goal is to not let a single soul join who will have to be medically discharged. When you have severe or reoccuring joint pain, yet a doctor says you are fine, that is a huge red flag. The cause has never been discovered, so it could come back because the cause has not been addressed. Or, it's not real, and your son has no pain tolerance or a psychological issue making him feel pain. Perhaps the ortho exam wasn't thorough? Same with migraines... if the SG reads "Migraines" how would he or she actually realize your son never had a migraine? If a doctor said he had a migraine, how would the SG magically know that was untrue? What in the records refutes the migraine records?

Also, keep in mind 1 concussion can also be a lifetime DQ because bad concussions come with a lifetime or possible side effects (post concussion syndrome, higher risk of severe TBI with future concussions, personality changes, etc). If the concussion was bad, there is a chance they could DQ just for that even if you could get around the other conditions.

It is incredibly difficult to quality for military service. In the last year, less than 70% of the people I have sent to MEPS have been allowed to join, all due to medical conditions that sound minor to us, but not to the SG.

You said the SG didn't read the medical records well. Have you read them? Is there literally something in them that explains the migraine diagnosis to have been false and supports that he has never had a migraine? He could have had a concussion and a migraine. Just because the migraine was mentioned during a concussion appointment doesn't mean the migraine part was untrue. Do the records support that he has never had a migraine? What in the records is medically convincing that the source of elbow pain has been 100% resolved? The SG will never extrapolate or assume something is healed and resolved, it must be completely clear. He probably read them, and these things were probably absent from the medical records.

Try again but include:
1. Letter from his doctor that he has never been seen or treated for migraines
2. 5-10 years of pharmacy records from the PHARMACY (Not medical records desk, very different)
3. Letter from your son about how he had never had migraines and his elbow pain has been gone for xxx years and he can do push-ups
4. Letter from you about how he had never had migraines and his elbow pain has been gone for xxx years and he can do push-ups

This might work, but the elbow pain DQ is likely to remain unless it can be explained as to what was causing it and how it was resolved, because the SG needs to be convinced it will not come back.

Last edited by dmarie123; 10-04-2018 at 07:34 AM..
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:08 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,176 posts, read 9,190,248 times
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Also, you can try the other branches. Army or Navy might approve the waiver.
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:41 AM
 
4 posts, read 719 times
Reputation: 19
Hi as far as the elbow. The Co wanted strength testing done so he went back to the same ortho he originally went to. He fractured his growth plate in his elbow playing baseball. The orthopedic wrote a letter stating the results of his testing and stated he will have no reoccurring problems. In his job he lifts over 100lbs all day with no problems.
As far as the migraines: All pharmacy records were provided and several people went through the records. One doctor wrote the word migraine and now that becomes his diagnosis? He doesn't have migraines. Actually all headaches stopped shortly after the concussion once he got glasses.
He could try for Army or Navy but he wanted the Air Force.
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Old 10-04-2018, 11:57 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,176 posts, read 9,190,248 times
Reputation: 4681
Yes. If a doctor said your son has migraines, he has a migraine diagnosis. The SG will assume that the doctor's diagnosis of migraines is 100% accurate. If there is nothing to positively refute this, then your son has Migraines in the eyes of the SG. I get migraines, and have been formally diagnosed by a neurologist after an MRI and CT scan, but I do not have any prescriptions for migraine mediation. The lack of prescriptions does not negate my diagnosis, but it does support your claim. I was able to join because I didn't start having the migraines until 10 years after I joined. Can you contact that doctor to see if you can get a letter that the migraine diagnosis was not investigated thoroughly, but was a precautionary diagnosis?


You said he was having headaches? Are you 100% sure that the headaches were not migraines? Regular headaches can also be a DQ, so a history of headaches and then the word "migraine" is going to be hard to overcome. From regulation 6130.03 an applicant is disqualified if:
"History of headaches, including but not limited to, migraines and tension headaches that:(1) Are severe enough to disrupt normal activities (e.g., loss of time from school or work) more than twice per year in the past 2 years;
(2) Require prescription medications more than twice per year within the last 2 years;"


So, if you can convince the SG that these conditions do NOT exist, you might have a chance of getting him approved. The SG will not assume that your son meets these conditions. It sounds like you have proven #2, but have you proven #1? How about attendance records for school, or letters from you, the other parent, and son about how he has never missed work or school for headaches in the last 2 years? Just some ideas.
Absence of any document showing he is qualified will result in a DQ. Grey areas will result in a DQ. Unanswered questions will result in a DQ. You have to, through the documents you submit, make the SG feel that your son meets all the conditions to say "yes" to him.


For the elbow- a broken growth plate is a much bigger deal than elbow pain. Broken growth plates can result in arms that are of uneven length due to growth plate damage. Was this addressed in the ortho report? Is there anything to show that a growth discrepancy did not result? For broken elbows you have to prove that he can flex it to 130 degree and extend it to 30 degrees (in that same regulation). That is the standard for a properly healed elbow. Are there measurements for his flexion and extension in the ortho report?


Here is the regulation. https://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc...0.03_JUL12.pdf


You and your son must prove he meets these conditions. The SG will not ask questions, the documentation has to just be there in the package for him to read.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:02 PM
 
4 posts, read 719 times
Reputation: 19
Yes he can flex his arm to 130 degrees and that was in the orthopedic report that was submitted. They even stayed it again.
If I were to get these documents how do I get them to the SG? The recruiter didn't tell him any of this. He pretty much just said he is disqualified and that's the end.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
4,481 posts, read 1,108,432 times
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Try a different recruiter. If that doesn't work try a different branch. If that doesn't work try to guard or reserves.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:45 PM
 
Location: AZ
585 posts, read 300,473 times
Reputation: 2342
It might not help but start annoying your Congress person with the issue. I suggest a senator but your representative might work too. I do mean annoying. If you do not get satisfaction then go to their office and to the local media. Raise hell if it is that important. The military is missing its recruiting objectives routinely so if your kid is getting a raw deal then go loud. Write to Sec Def Mattis. Write to President Trump.

Understand that the military does not care one iota about your kid. All the noise about caring for the troops and their being family is mostly bogus.

Again, go loud. The military medical bunch are bureaucrats and not combat docs.
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:29 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,176 posts, read 9,190,248 times
Reputation: 4681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bygeorge View Post
It might not help but start annoying your Congress person with the issue. I suggest a senator but your representative might work too. I do mean annoying. If you do not get satisfaction then go to their office and to the local media. Raise hell if it is that important. The military is missing its recruiting objectives routinely so if your kid is getting a raw deal then go loud. Write to Sec Def Mattis. Write to President Trump.

Understand that the military does not care one iota about your kid. All the noise about caring for the troops and their being family is mostly bogus.

Again, go loud. The military medical bunch are bureaucrats and not combat docs.
The poster does not have a case against the SG. The SG is following a Department of Defense Regulation that says headaches/Migraines are DQ. The original poster's son was properly Disqualified. The Congressman will only act in cases of misconduct. I've had probably 25 applicants file congressional complaints in the last 10 years because of medical disqualifications. They all resulted in complete inaction. There has to be something done wrong. A Congressman has zero ability to force the Air Force to let a disqualified applicant join. The son was disqualified for something that is disqualifying.

The elbow could be a potential case, IF there are medical documents indicating it is 100% healed. It should not be a DQ for that. If there was a break, and then it healed, and THEN there was reoccuring pain... that is proper grounds for a DQ because it indicated improper healing. I'm not completely sure by reading the poster's posts, but it sounds to me like he broke it, it healed, and then he still had reoccuring pain that the doctor wasn't able to explain the reasoning for. That's a huge concern for a medical clearance, and will not be something a Congressman has the power to overturn.

A Congressional inquiry will result, at most, with the SGs office explaining why the son was disqualified, and the Congressman responding to the parent that the son was disqualified in accordance with 6130.03 and the Air Force's regulations.

TWO doctors decided to disqualify the son. The MEPS doctor, and the SG. No Congressman will intervene.

The Air Force has not missed it's recruiting goals since 1999.
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:41 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,176 posts, read 9,190,248 times
Reputation: 4681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirk123 View Post
Yes he can flex his arm to 130 degrees and that was in the orthopedic report that was submitted. They even stayed it again.
If I were to get these documents how do I get them to the SG? The recruiter didn't tell him any of this. He pretty much just said he is disqualified and that's the end.
I'm not 100% sure that I understand why the elbow was a DQ. Are you sure that the elbow was included in the DQ?

The only thing I can think of, was the "reoccurring" pain after it was healed ?? This may make the SG nervous that it didn't heal property. Do you have a CURRENT x-ray? When he went back to the ortho was an x-ray done? A CURRENT x-ray report with a radiologist stating there is full and proper healing, a statement from him that it hasn't hurt in however long, something showing his arms are equal lengths, and letters about how he has no restrictions can help.

The recruiter should have gotten a letter from the SG or a form with a handwritten disqualification reason. Did you get a copy of it? As the recruiter for a copy, as it will say right on it why he was disqualified. I won't be surprised if it was just for the "migraines" which I think you can easily refute with letters from you, him, doctor, and attendance records from school. You could even get a teacher, coach, pastor, etc, to write letters that they've never known your son to have a migraine or headache the interfered with work, school, sports, etc.

You get these back to the SG through the recruiter. Once you have all of these, go back to the recruiter and ask for an additional "Med Read" where the CMO (Chief Medical Officer) at MEPS "reads" the records, and then sends them back to the SG who "reads" them again, and makes a ruling.

I have seen MULTIPLE SG waivers overturned on the reattack with more supporting documents. The trick is to convince away any concerns the SG might have.

First step, get a copy of the DQ letter from the recruiter so can be sure that you are addressing the exact correct things. You might get lucky and it may say something like "DQ for elbow break due to missing physical therapy records" and you can just get them and immediately re attack.

Recruiters are not always good about reading the letters. We have a a computer system and it shows as a DQ, and they don't always look any father than that or open attachments. I've been doing this for over a decade, and some of our recruiters out there are new and haven't dealt with a lot of SG waivers, have no medical background and don't understand the DQs etc. Many turn to me for advice on how to get applicants qualified. Not having seen your son's medical records, and from what you've said, I think he has a good chance if you can get together some of the things I suggested and get your recruiter to send them back up. If your recruiter won't send them back up, give me your state or the largest city near you and I'll get you a supervisor's contact info.



Good luck.
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