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Old 10-28-2018, 03:25 PM
 
1,937 posts, read 1,328,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
Amen. I knew a number of excellent, effective E-5s who were worried about getting put out because of whatever it took to get to six was not in their portfolio.

Just as some people in federal service will never make it past GS-5 or GS-7, some military types do their best work as E4s or E5s. Keep them, their experience and expertise is valuable and their replacements may not be nearly as hard-working.

It's like the mantra "get a college degree!" That is idiot advice mostly coming from idiots.
Many people are not suited for the academic--using the term most loosely considering what passes for thought these days in colleges, and that professors as a class are perhaps the silliest and most delusional "professionals" in our nation--world and would be best advised to look at skilled trades, sales, service industry, and other areas that do not require a...well, as a funny and now, sadly, deceased friend told me years ago, "We all know what BS is. MS is 'more of the same,' PhD is 'piled higher and deeper.'"

Applied often then, applies more now.
If making E-6 was not in their "portfolio"... then it means they really aren't worth keeping. E-6 is not even a senior NCO. It's essentially a permanent junior technician.

My hunch is that this is a force-tailoring move designed to reduce the number of new recruits maybe for whatever reason.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k7baixo View Post
We had a Captain who came to work with us as a Ssgt./med lab tech. He failed to make major and was rifted to Ssgt pending retirement at 20. I must say that he had a very good attitude all things considered.

Circa 1980 or so.
Good attitude "all things considered"?

All things like... he got to keep his retirement and benefits.... he didn't lose his career.... and he must have had some friends who helped him stay in if he didn't make major. That doesn't happen a lot.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:32 PM
 
17,929 posts, read 9,854,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
If making E-6 was not in their "portfolio"... then it means they really aren't worth keeping. E-6 is not even a senior NCO. It's essentially a permanent junior technician.
E-5 and E-6 do most of the work of the enlisted force (which should be obvious). They will be the experienced crew chiefs and team leads.

If Air Force life sucked as much as other services, the turnover rate would be high enough that there would be a lot more E-7 vacancies a lot earlier. But Air Force life doesn't suck so much, so in a great many career fields, senior NCOs hang on beyond 20, which retards promotions all the way down the chain.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
You are wrong.... No clue...


I have about 23 years of clue.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
When did the Air Force start retaining people who had been demoted? When I was active, such a person was "disinvited" to re-enlist.


Demoted.... or not promoted. Since when did the Air Force start retaining people who weren't eligible for promotion to even E-6? Since now, I guess.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
Demoted.... or not promoted. Since when did the Air Force start retaining people who weren't eligible for promotion to even E-6? Since now, I guess.
As I said earlier: Up until the mid-90s.

I remember one of the monthy JAG-JOR meetings I attended as a division superintendent in the late 90s in Nebraska. That month, two of the kids in a clutch were a couple of airmen, a man and a woman, who had been returning to base from a house party one Saturday night.

They were in a taxi. As the guard at the gate checked their ID, he noted the smell of alcohol on their breaths. He checked the birthdates on their IDs and noted that while the man was just over the state legal drinking age, the woman was shy of it by three months. The young man admitted to having given the woman alcohol at the party.

So the policeman arrested them at the gate.

And so there we were, we command division chiefs and superintendents, in our monthly meeting with the commander and a JAG rep determining the Air Force fates of these two people.

From the JAG: "They broke the law, and we have the evidence to convict them."

From their division chief, "These are great kids! They're just the kind of young people we want in the Air Force. Their work is impeccable. They weren't even driving. Who here at this table hadn't had a drink before he was legal?"

The commander: "They're criminals. We don't need criminals in the Air Force."

About that time, I was thinking I'd been in the Air Force too long.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,048 posts, read 919,906 times
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What is now Senior Airman once was Sergeant, wasn't it? Why was it changed?
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Old 10-28-2018, 04:17 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,140 posts, read 38,906,904 times
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Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
What is now Senior Airman once was Sergeant, wasn't it? Why was it changed?
What is now a Senior Airman once was once a Sergeant in the US Air Force. It was pay grade E-4.

The rank of Sergeant existed in the U.S. Army before the US Air Force existed.

Pay grade E-4 in the Army is usually rank of Corporal or Specialist...

Currently the Pay grade E-5 in the Army is the rank of Sergeant. At one time it could also have been the Rank of Specialist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_(rank)

It was possibly changed to eliminate some confusion?
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Old 10-28-2018, 04:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
What is now Senior Airman once was Sergeant, wasn't it? Why was it changed?
When I enlisted, "Airman" was set in three "classes," three stripes was Sergeant, four stripes was Staff Sergeant.

In the late 70s, the "classes" were dropped as Airman designation, stripes with a blue (invisible) star indicated "airman," three strips with a blue star was E-4 "Senior Airman," and three stripes with a silver star was E-4 Sergeant. I called three stripes with a blue star "Airman, Junior Grade." Theoretically, when an E-4 Senior Airman was granted actual NCO status by his commander to "Sergeant" with the silver star, it was supposed to be a big deal accompanied by real NCO authority at that point. That hardly happened.

In the 80s, they dropped the blue star insignia, dropped "sergeant" entirely and called three stripes with a silver star E-4 "Senior Airman."

Generally, it had taken E-5 before an airman gained NCO authority (at least during my career--I have an idea that in earlier years, the E-4 sergeant had more authority than it ever had during my career), so this really rather identifies the title "sergeant" with actual NCO authority.
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Old 10-29-2018, 02:59 AM
 
1,609 posts, read 690,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
Demoted.... or not promoted. Since when did the Air Force start retaining people who weren't eligible for promotion to even E-6? Since now, I guess.
The HYT for E-5 was once 20 years before this recent change. So even if an E-6 got demoted to E-5, as long as the commander approves their re-enlistment, they can still retire at 20. I guess it depends on how well they make up their "service character" after the demotion. I have seen it numerous times in my career. A couple of times for DUIs, when no-one was hurt obviously.
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