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Old 01-02-2019, 02:29 PM
 
175 posts, read 572,023 times
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Was dismissed without any conditions because the law etc. found i was not guilty. etc

Did you read the pdf though?
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:08 PM
 
9,826 posts, read 7,644,627 times
Reputation: 24105
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowboy06 View Post
Sucks need a waiver even though i was not convicted at all and the judtice system wrongly chatged me by retrying the grand jury til they could get the indictment aka corrupt

Anyways id rather not get into speciifcs about the case online but i did not attempt to kill or kill anyone. Only to stop the attacker from possibly killing my family member as they intended.

Really sucks i thought the waiver process was if you were convicted of a crime which i have never been. Does it make a difference if its expunged at all and or what can i expect with the waiver process? Also my credit isnt very good either.
If someone died, you did kill them. The reasons why and the circumstances don't change that fact. Sounds like due process was in order.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Northern panhandle WV
2,584 posts, read 1,882,297 times
Reputation: 5400
Until you are found guilty, you remain innocent. PERIOD. Not guilty does not mean that somehow you are guilty but it didn't come out that way in court. BUT being innocent is what the law states and you only stop being innocent after you are found guilty in a court of law. There is no need for a court to find someone INNOCENT because they are presumed to be under the law.
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:44 PM
 
175 posts, read 572,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arwenmark View Post
Until you are found guilty, you remain innocent. PERIOD. Not guilty does not mean that somehow you are guilty but it didn't come out that way in court. BUT being innocent is what the law states and you only stop being innocent after you are found guilty in a court of law. There is no need for a court to find someone INNOCENT because they are presumed to be under the law.

Yea idk wat that one poster was saying.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:12 PM
 
11,396 posts, read 4,068,150 times
Reputation: 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
Completely not true.

The legal document you sign says have you ever been arrested? Have you ever been cited? Have you ever been ticketed?

It doesn't say "have you ever had a charge that wasn't expunged or dismissed."

It happened, you were arrested, or ticketed, or cited... so you must disclose it or risk a fraudulent enlistment or denial of enlistment. You might not need a waiver if there were legitimately zero consquences and it was dismissed WITHOUT a single condition.

I'm not sure what you mean by you "basically" had it dismissed. What it deferred adjuduction, meaning it was dismissed after a certain amount of time without you getting in trouble? If so, still counts. Or was it dismissed because they judge was like "Whoa, you obviously didn't do this crime, so case dismissed" because if that's the case, you might not need a waiver. If the judge was like "Looks like this is your first offense, so I'll be nice and dismiss it" then you need a waiver. Dismissed for a lack of guilt is way different than dismissed for mercy, at least in the eyes of the military.
It is actually more complex than that. The state law mostly says the expunged arrest never occurred and the person can legally deny its existence. There are a set of exceptions for Law enforcement and the military though they seem more concentrated on expunged convictions which is not the case here.

There are lawyers who specialize in expungement if you google it.

I would also opine that is all a waste if you don't get your credit straightened out first.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
6,343 posts, read 3,421,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
It is actually more complex than that. The state law mostly says the expunged arrest never occurred and the person can legally deny its existence. There are a set of exceptions for Law enforcement and the military though they seem more concentrated on expunged convictions which is not the case here.

There are lawyers who specialize in expungement if you google it.

I would also opine that is all a waste if you don't get your credit straightened out first.

Well, Federal law trumps state law. The question is very simple...Have you ever been arrested? To the military, it's a very simple yes or no answer. For the purposes of answering this question, what happened after the arrest is irrelevant. Have you ever been arrested? Yes or no. It doesn't matter if you were convicted, found not guilty, had the charges dropped, got pardoned, received post conviction relief, had your record expunged or whatever. If you were hooked and booked you'd better be answering yes, regardless of the final disposition.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
5,195 posts, read 1,375,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
The military is not a court of law.
Bingo, Americans also have no right to serve.

Uncle Sam can be as discriminatory as it wants for military qualification. Age, medical history, financial history, tattoos, physical health, asvab score, high school diploma, waist measurement, etc. The military will cast a wide net but they still don't want the trouble makers of society.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:30 PM
 
11,396 posts, read 4,068,150 times
Reputation: 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
Well, Federal law trumps state law. The question is very simple...Have you ever been arrested? To the military, it's a very simple yes or no answer. For the purposes of answering this question, what happened after the arrest is irrelevant. Have you ever been arrested? Yes or no. It doesn't matter if you were convicted, found not guilty, had the charges dropped, got pardoned, received post conviction relief, had your record expunged or whatever. If you were hooked and booked you'd better be answering yes, regardless of the final disposition.
Again expunging an arrest says it no longer exists. One could argue that admitting it exists when it does not is in fact a lie. And Federal law does not override state law unless there is a conflict and sometimes not then.

And the proper way is to get a lawyer who knows the area and see where you actually stand.
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:08 AM
 
8,820 posts, read 10,734,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Again expunging an arrest says it no longer exists. One could argue that admitting it exists when it does not is in fact a lie. And Federal law does not override state law unless there is a conflict and sometimes not then.

And the proper way is to get a lawyer who knows the area and see where you actually stand.
This issue has been discussed ad nauseam so many times it gives us headaches going over it again that no amount of Excedrin can relive. The USDOJ and the USDOD is exempt from expunge, sealed, or other wiping away of arrest and convictions. Every state will indicate that although the records are closed to almost everyone, it's still available to DOJ and DOD. This has been the case for decades and will remain the case for decades to come. Nothing anyone thinks, belive, or want it to be changes the fact that expunged records are required to be disclosed just like any other criminal record for military enlistment. Attorneys have weight in many times before and concurred about disclosure being required for military recruitment.
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:37 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,262 posts, read 9,414,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
It is actually more complex than that. The state law mostly says the expunged arrest never occurred and the person can legally deny its existence. There are a set of exceptions for Law enforcement and the military though they seem more concentrated on expunged convictions which is not the case here.

There are lawyers who specialize in expungement if you google it.

I would also opine that is all a waste if you don't get your credit straightened out first.

The military doesn't answer to state law. For a security clearance, and for approval to join the military, you MUST disclose expunged records. If you do not, and you are caught, you will be facing fraudulent enlistment and a discharge from the military that could be other than honorable.

The military often sees expunged records because the charges/arrests/citation can be found in FEDERAL background checks (vs state or local) and are often in FBI databases. Additionally, there will be a security clearance investigator that will ask friends, employers, teachers, and family members if you've ever been in trouble with the law. Often, someone knows about the past issues, and spills the beans.

I understand state law, but these posters are asking about whether or not they have to disclose it to the military. They DO, or they face consequences.

Here is an actual case in which someone hid an expunged record, and was thereby denied a clearance, and tried to fight it on the grounds of legally being able to without the expunged offense. HE LOST after appealing his denied clearance and denied employment position. http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/industrial/04-12678.a1.pdf From the case,

"In filling out his security clearance application, Applicant answered “no” to Question 26.
This question asked if, in the previous seven years, Applicant had been arrested for, charged with,
or convicted of, any offense not otherwise reported on the application form. The question states that
Applicant was to answer the question even if the conviction had been sealed or otherwise stricken
from the record. "

"The Board does not agree with Applicant’s position. Expungement of an offense does not relieve Applicant of the responsibility to provide truthful answers... Applicant’s argument is further
weakened by the fact that the court which ordered the expungement was a state court. See ISCR
Case No. 03-22563 at 4 (App. Bd. Mar. 8, 2006)"

" (“[T]he federal government is not bound by state law concerning the expungement of state criminal convictions . . . [and] can require a person applying for a . . . security clearance to disclose information about his criminal record even if it has been expunged.”)"

I am speaking only to the question of if people can hid expunged records when joining the military. NO. Regardless of state law. NO. Regardless of legal advice. NO. Regardless of what a judge says. NO.
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