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Old 01-12-2019, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Elysium
6,023 posts, read 3,269,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkthekoolaid View Post
I'm an air force guy.... Drones are all well and fine but they aren't the end all be all. Their have their role and they are good at it. They cannot do more than they are capable of. But at the end of the day You need people to have boots on the ground and to take territory by force if necessary and to hold it as needed. There is no substitute for that.

We are a combinded arms military which increases our effectiveness. Each branch is great at their core tasks and they all have a purpose.
The theory is that any enemy will have more drones than the Navy will have anti aircraft missiles. And when push comes to shove any enemy will trade 10 drones built from off the shelve materials for an Assault Amphibious Vehicle trying to get the boots to the ground
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:30 AM
 
1,075 posts, read 474,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
The theory is that any enemy will have more drones than the Navy will have anti aircraft missiles. And when push comes to shove any enemy will trade 10 drones built from off the shelve materials for an Assault Amphibious Vehicle trying to get the boots to the ground
And their drones won't have the same capability to take out aircraft or helicopters? Air assault is all well and good but it has limitations too. Helicopters are vulnerable can't easily carry armor or heavy logistical support.

I also don't see modern versions of dday or tarawa. I don't think most countries are in the business of fortifying their entire coastline with bunkers and pillboxes like ww2. Logistically it's easier to establish a beach head for offloading larger quantities of heavy cargo or armor.

It's wise to have as many capabilities and skills as you can. It will keep your enemy off balance if they know there are multiple realistic ways you have the capability to attack. If there ever was going to be an amphibious assault on a contested beach zone I imagine it would face extensive threat suppression from the combined arms of our military coordinating together

Everything has its place. Just as we are evolving so are our enemies.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,098 posts, read 19,065,016 times
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well, How the enemies "attack" the US in the future, in my opinion, is pure speculation. Nobody knows the answer. One can also argue that the "enemies" will never attack the US, so the whole military should be down sized. Well, nobody is the psychic who can predict the future. This said,

The future of Amphibious Assault may not look like Normandy or Okinawa, but that doesn't mean we're done with it as a craft.

Potential scenarios with DRPK are being considered with eventual Beach Landing, which is a tool that DoD won’t want to lose. With doctrine changing to allow Amphib and Landing craft deployments form 50–100 miles offshore (to avoid cruise missiles) . You won’t be getting there by swimming or air assets alone.

Amphib is so relevant that China continues to build up its Marine capabilities. I am not suggesting China is the threat ( I don't know it for sure), I am only saying when China is building up their own Marine capabilities, amphibious assault is of course still relevant.

Plus, Nothing in any part of the military works on its own, and while AAVs have largely been superseded by helicopters for fast placement of troops, they do have many advantages.

I think it is safe to say that as long as America can afford a standing army, she will have a standing marine corps. What that role is, time will tell and have a lot to do with geography. But if history has a say, then as long as there are ships in combat, there will be Marines.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:23 PM
 
13,673 posts, read 12,572,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Aside from the fact that a lot of countries don't have anything close to a modern military... so what?

Just because something can be defeated does not make it a useless tool.
Well, most articles regarding this topic and similar are discussing about these storming the beach tactics in the context of modern warfare. The US sure as hell is not investing billions of dollars into new ships, tech, equipment, etc, because of a country like Somalia, lol.

And you are confusing tools with tactics. The cannon made obsolete the city wall. That does not mean walls are useless, just that the cannon changed how a wall is used. Rifles and rapid fire rifles made obsolete the the wall of infantry charge we saw from the US Civil War and prior. I can go on and on about how military tactics have changed due to technology making the tactic obsolete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Does heavy armor mean small arms are outdated?
Does the fact that a kevlar vest will do nothing to stop a head shot mean that no one should bother wearing them?
Do we scrap the air force because it's not even possible to build an aircraft that cannot be shot down?

Of course not.
This has nothing to do with what I said. This is equipment you are comparing, I am discussing tactics. But we can get into the evolution of equipment and how this has influenced tactics if you want.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:39 PM
 
5,048 posts, read 2,016,933 times
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I don't know about that. The invention of artillery put your average grunt into a hole in the ground to hide and escape from it's effects. If artillery knew where you're at in those holes it could still do you harm. To do an amphibious assault where the location is known and the enemy has to means to assault the landing areas from afar means it might not be such a good idea.

To try and pull off an amphibious assault with the military equipment available to any country capable of defending itself (such as Russia or China) you'd have to be on some pretty good drugs to even think of it. Between heavy artillery weapons, FAEs, counter attacks by large well equipped infantry and mechanized forces a beachhead would be pounded to rubble in short order. Even the disbursed/ air lifted assets inland would be isolated and cut to pieces because any air assets would be fighting for their lives instead of protecting the ground pounders.

Now if it were more in line with something Marines are capable of doing like assaulting the beaches of some 3rd world country filled with starving helpless people then I'm sure it would be a grand success worthy of a Parade in Times Square.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:57 AM
 
3,197 posts, read 1,350,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
The theory is that any enemy will have more drones than the Navy will have anti aircraft missiles. And when push comes to shove any enemy will trade 10 drones built from off the shelve materials for an Assault Amphibious Vehicle trying to get the boots to the ground
Worse...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,098 posts, read 19,065,016 times
Reputation: 12482
well, The slow shift away from fighting in landlocked Middle Eastern regions and Afghanistan and towards China in the Asia-Pacific and Russia in the Baltic region will likely make America's amphibious capabilities more relevant than ever. As for whether a major amphibious assault ever takes place again is an open question and perhaps even irrelevant: the true success of Navy/Marine amphibious team might not be in a successful assault, but in appearing formidable enough that potential adversaries are deterred from starting a conflict to begin with.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,542 posts, read 39,743,259 times
Reputation: 28660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post

22 Dec 2017 | 14:45 GMT
Why You Shouldn't Fear “Slaughterbots”

A dystopian future in which killer robots are massacring innocents is terrifying, but let’s be clear: It's very much science fiction
By Paul Scharre

A scene from "Slaughterbots," a film that depicts a dystopian future in which autonomous lethal drones fall into the hands of terrorists.

This is a guest post. The views expressed here are solely those of the author and do not represent positions of IEEE Spectrum or the IEEE.

Killer drones in the hands of terrorists massacring innocents. Robotic weapons of mass destruction breeding chaos and fear. A video created by advocates of a ban on autonomous weapons would have you believe this dystopian future is right around the corner if we don’t act now. The short video, called “Slaughterbots,” was released last month coinciding with United Nations meetings on autonomous weapons. The UN meetings ended inconclusively, but the video is getting traction. It’s gotten over 2 million views and has sparked dozens of news stories. As a piece of propaganda, it works great. As a substantive argument for a ban on autonomous weapons, the video fails miserably.

Entire Article: https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/...-slaughterbots
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Old Today, 09:28 AM
 
10,706 posts, read 7,806,828 times
Reputation: 19056
Can we maybe think of it as an amphibious landing?
If you need boots on the ground and there's an open beach it's nice to know the Marines have that capability.
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