U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-17-2019, 06:02 AM
 
8 posts, read 1,048 times
Reputation: 18

Advertisements

Hello. Iíve been applying to the Air Force Nurse Corps for awhile and hereís my story:
Anyone ever have this happen? Okay, long story short. Iím a critical care nurse applicant, prior service Air Force. Had a kidney stone back in 2002 (I was active duty AF then). Isolated incident. Received lithotripsy and had no problems since. I was told it was due to my poor diet. Fast forward to present day. Applied for the nurse board. Disclosed my history of a kidney stone. Went to MEPS, no problem, passed and was told I would need a consult about the past kidney stone. Accepted by the nurse board with a COT date 08 June. I kept pestering my recruiter about the consult. He told me MEPS needs me to see a urologist to have an IVP done on my kidneys. Went to see a urologist through my health insurance. He said IVPs are outdated and the standard of practice now is ultrasound. Had an ultrasound done. No issues. No stones detected, kidneys functional. Sent the test results and a letter from my urologist stating I have no kidney problems to my recruiter. Recruiter sent it to medical command and tells me Iíll still need a consult. I keep on him about the consult and he informs me that the SG has disqualified me due to a history of kidney stones. Iím curious if my test results and letter from the urologist were ever sent because after the recruiter said he sent my info to medical command he asked me for the letter again in case he needs it. What am I to think? Was my recruiter incompetent? Did medical command not get my test results? Is it because I didnít get the IVP done? Why would I be asked to have a test done, cleared by the specialist with supporting results and then disqualified? Has this happened to anyone? Should I apply for a different branch of service? Any advice? Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-17-2019, 07:00 AM
 
10,932 posts, read 7,969,685 times
Reputation: 19453
Air Guard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 01:08 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,772 posts, read 40,150,396 times
Reputation: 28884
Quote:
Originally Posted by ummagumma32 View Post
Should I apply for a different branch of service?
Yes...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ummagumma32 View Post
Any advice?
Try every service available.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ummagumma32 View Post
Thanks.
My pleasure... Army Retired...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2019, 02:03 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,305 posts, read 9,559,218 times
Reputation: 5075
Quote:
Originally Posted by ummagumma32 View Post
Hello. Iíve been applying to the Air Force Nurse Corps for awhile and hereís my story:
Anyone ever have this happen? Okay, long story short. Iím a critical care nurse applicant, prior service Air Force. Had a kidney stone back in 2002 (I was active duty AF then). Isolated incident. Received lithotripsy and had no problems since. I was told it was due to my poor diet. Fast forward to present day. Applied for the nurse board. Disclosed my history of a kidney stone. Went to MEPS, no problem, passed and was told I would need a consult about the past kidney stone. Accepted by the nurse board with a COT date 08 June. I kept pestering my recruiter about the consult. He told me MEPS needs me to see a urologist to have an IVP done on my kidneys. Went to see a urologist through my health insurance. He said IVPs are outdated and the standard of practice now is ultrasound. Had an ultrasound done. No issues. No stones detected, kidneys functional. Sent the test results and a letter from my urologist stating I have no kidney problems to my recruiter. Recruiter sent it to medical command and tells me Iíll still need a consult. I keep on him about the consult and he informs me that the SG has disqualified me due to a history of kidney stones. Iím curious if my test results and letter from the urologist were ever sent because after the recruiter said he sent my info to medical command he asked me for the letter again in case he needs it. What am I to think? Was my recruiter incompetent? Did medical command not get my test results? Is it because I didnít get the IVP done? Why would I be asked to have a test done, cleared by the specialist with supporting results and then disqualified? Has this happened to anyone? Should I apply for a different branch of service? Any advice? Thanks.
I'm a recruiter with 10 years of experience. I have seen MULTIPLE people disqualified by the SG for kidney stones. Unfortunately, once you have a kidney stone, there is a much greater risk that you will have another kidney stone, than someone who has never had one. The SG will weight that. However, our old regulation used to specify that people with a history of kidney stones were disqualified. It was republished last year, and no longer says that. See page 27 of the DOD regulation here:https://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc...0.03_JUL12.pdf

It sounds like you meet the qualifications, especially if you have the all clear.
You should get a letter from the SG with information about the DQ, and this may give you an idea of if they got the tests, didn't like the tests, etc. Can you show some of the other testing? Like glomerular filtration, and lack of proteinuria? Often, the DQs are because the stones were coupled with other abnormal tests. If you can provide any new information, they can take another look and make a new ruling.

You can also provide this regulation to the AETC IG and ask for in inquiry into if you were properly disqualified or not (you can google the contact info). You may even be able to find contact info for the AETC SG (that is who disqualified you) and find out if they got the paperwork.

Otherwise, yes, try other branches.

On another note- Imagine you're a critical care nurse, treating multiple GSUs, in a combat zone, and you're the only provider because everyone is stretched thin... and BAM, Kidney stones cripples you with pain. Can you see how that could be a concern?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2019, 07:33 AM
 
8 posts, read 1,048 times
Reputation: 18
Thank you for your response. If those are the current standards I canít understand why I was disqualified. As far as further tests, I did what the AF asked me too. Saw a urologist, was tested and received a clearance letter from the urologist. My recruiters chain of command is routing it back up through the chain. Hopefully, I will find out soon. Thank you for the regulation. I will bring it to my recruiters attention.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2019, 12:13 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,305 posts, read 9,559,218 times
Reputation: 5075
Even as a recruiter, I sometimes had trouble getting answers from the SG's office on why some applicants were disqualified, and others were not, when they had seemingly similar medical conditions.

I was counseled that it depends on the whole picture of the medical records, as a whole. For example, if you had multiple UTIs in addition to the kidney stones, or couldn't show that your GFR and protein content in your urine were normal, or a myriad of other reasons. The burden of proof, unfortunately, is on you.

The Air Force likely didn't ask you for any tests/consults, MEPS did. MEPS is an Army entity, and they don't work for the Air Force, and would not know what tests the Air Force SG requires. As such, if the medical records you sent weren't enough to assuage the SG, you'll get denied. I think they review 10,000 medical files a year at the SG, and so they don't usually kick it back asking for certain tests... they just look at it and if they don't feel 100% comfortable, they disqualify.

Did you send proof of normal GFR and normal UA to the SG? Those would help, in my opinion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2019, 02:57 PM
 
8 posts, read 1,048 times
Reputation: 18
Thanks for making a clearer picture of all this. No blood tests were requested. MEPS has requested me to have an IVP (intravenouspyleogram) from a urologist at my own expense. I went and saw a urologist and told him my history of having one kidney stone 16 years ago and never had any problems since. The urologist told me that IVPs are outdated by a couple decades as patients are subjected to unnecessary radiation that way. Today they use ultrasound tests which will show if any stones are present and itís safer for the patient. So I had that done and (obviously) I didnít have any stones. He wrote me a letter clearing me of any kidney issues and I sent that and my test results to the recruiter and the recruiter sent up to AETC. Three weeks later the recruiter tells me Iíve been disqualified by the SG based off of a HISTORY of kidney stones. No mention of my recent test results or the letter from my urologist. The medical history was already known thatís why I needed a test done. Why would the SG ignore my test results and urology letter? I told my recruiter none of this makes any sense. Why did I have to get a urology tests done then. He is now having his boss (flight chief?) work the issue. He assured me they are doing everything they can. I have no idea what this entails. Does it go back to the SG requesting another review? Clarification? Requesting further tests? Or does it go past the AETC SG? I have no idea. All I know is that Iím losing sleep over it and itís been incredibly frustrating. Thank you for your time in reading this. I appreciate your insight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2019, 06:20 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,305 posts, read 9,559,218 times
Reputation: 5075
Quote:
Originally Posted by ummagumma32 View Post
Thanks for making a clearer picture of all this. No blood tests were requested. MEPS has requested me to have an IVP (intravenouspyleogram) from a urologist at my own expense. I went and saw a urologist and told him my history of having one kidney stone 16 years ago and never had any problems since. The urologist told me that IVPs are outdated by a couple decades as patients are subjected to unnecessary radiation that way. Today they use ultrasound tests which will show if any stones are present and itís safer for the patient. So I had that done and (obviously) I didnít have any stones. He wrote me a letter clearing me of any kidney issues and I sent that and my test results to the recruiter and the recruiter sent up to AETC. Three weeks later the recruiter tells me Iíve been disqualified by the SG based off of a HISTORY of kidney stones. No mention of my recent test results or the letter from my urologist. The medical history was already known thatís why I needed a test done. Why would the SG ignore my test results and urology letter? I told my recruiter none of this makes any sense. Why did I have to get a urology tests done then. He is now having his boss (flight chief?) work the issue. He assured me they are doing everything they can. I have no idea what this entails. Does it go back to the SG requesting another review? Clarification? Requesting further tests? Or does it go past the AETC SG? I have no idea. All I know is that Iím losing sleep over it and itís been incredibly frustrating. Thank you for your time in reading this. I appreciate your insight.
The medical regulation and standards are guidelines for the DOD. It appears the AF has decided to be stricter (their prerogative). I thought it prudent to provide those guidelines to give you an idea of what else they might look at that could influence the outcome of your decision (GFR, etc).

Also, I just did a quick search of IVP, and multiple universities still list this as the standard test for kidney issues and stones. From UW: "IVP- This test is usually considered when an obstructing stone is suspected or when kidney function is thought to be compromised. In an IVP, a harmless dye is injected into a vein. X-rays of the abdominal region are then taken to see how quickly the kidneys excrete the dye into the urine."
Also, from their website, Ultrasound only shows current stones, and does not show how quickly kidneys excrete dye, therefore it is an inferior test for kidney function.
https://www.uwhealth.org/urology/kid...iagnosis/11229

MEPS/Military want and IVP, and you didn't get one. If the SG is wanting to see one, not having one will definitely be part of the reason for a DQ. The military decides what tests it wants, not the civilian providers. MEPS recommendations weight heavily on the SG, and it's possible MEPS recommended a DQ because you provided tests that were different than those specifically requested of you. Also, it's possible MEPS asked for an IVP because they know that's the test SG uses to make a ruling.

Here is another article about the importance of using IVP testing to evaluate kidney function- from the Mayo Clinic- a pretty well respected authority. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-pro...t/pac-20394475

Here is an article about IVPs, listing the limitations of ultrasound as compared to IVPs. Kidney Stones Diagnosis - Kidney Stones - HealthCommunities.com
For example, " Ureteral stones usually cannot be seen using ultrasound."
So, you could currently have a ureteral stone, right now, and no one would know, because you didn't get an IVP.

Now that I'm understanding this more fully, as a recruiter (I'm two levels above a flight chief, so not shooting from the cuff here) with 10 years of experience, I would expect that your disqualification is going to stand firm until you provide the tests that were requested of you.

There is no route for appeal. That's why I originally suggested the IG route, as that may be the most likely way for your to get answers. The IG option isn't exactly an appeal, but rather a "watchdog" agency who will push SG to ensure they made the correct decision. If SG can explain their decision, it stands. The SG is going to answer an IG complaint with "She was asked for an IVP and didn't provide one" and then the IG will close the case.

The flight chief may be able to get a second look by the SG, but the answer will almost certainly not change unless one of two things happen- 1. They didn't get the records the first time, so with re-submission they're read and consider them and you might get approved. or 2. They got the medical records, but were not willing to approve without the IVP, and won't approve until they get an IVP.

Good luck- sorry you're going through this!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2019, 08:11 PM
 
8 posts, read 1,048 times
Reputation: 18
Roger that. I did ask my recruiter if I was DQ’d because I didn’t get an IVP. I’m sure I could arrange on getting one. Perhaps I will contact my urologist and see if I can get one and then I could send the test results from that to strengthen my case. Thank you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2019, 08:22 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,305 posts, read 9,559,218 times
Reputation: 5075
In the meantime, I'll be hoping for you that it was a simple mistake and it gets remedied! Good luck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top