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Old 06-21-2019, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
6,509 posts, read 6,975,288 times
Reputation: 9236

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
Wow, I’m impressed.

Try this:
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Honor
Integrity
Selfless Service.

Maybe the folks who don’t know better will be impressed. Me? Not so much.

In your career, you ever bend the rules to take care of a good troop? I sure did. As a Division level SGM, I went to the wall for many folks. I’d do it again.

Bending a rule is one thing. Taking care of soldiers is a senior leader's primary mission. So thank you for your understanding. Yeah back in the day it was common to not tell the entire truth such as drug use or trouble with the law. As a 1SG I went to the wall against a SGM as well because we all have a different viewpoint on what is right sometimes. I wasn't trying to impress you. Just help the OP who seems to have a medical issue that could preclude him from joining the Marine Corps. If it is something and he lied about it on his forms and they caught him it could lead to unwanted consequences. Because somewhere some SGM is pissed off because he had a 1SG contradict him.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:54 AM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
5,671 posts, read 4,581,309 times
Reputation: 5071
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Bending a rule is one thing. Taking care of soldiers is a senior leader's primary mission. So thank you for your understanding. Yeah back in the day it was common to not tell the entire truth such as drug use or trouble with the law. As a 1SG I went to the wall against a SGM as well because we all have a different viewpoint on what is right sometimes. I wasn't trying to impress you. Just help the OP who seems to have a medical issue that could preclude him from joining the Marine Corps. If it is something and he lied about it on his forms and they caught him it could lead to unwanted consequences. Because somewhere some SGM is pissed off because he had a 1SG contradict him.
I love people to contradict me. I hate yes men.

Anyway, this horse is beat to death. We'll just have to see things from a different viewpoint.

Take care and thanks.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,866 posts, read 11,156,320 times
Reputation: 7123
Lying about it on the original paperwork then coming clean doesn't make you someone that didn't lie. It just makes you someone that lied at different times.

Honesty is the best policy all the time but lying to get to meps then changing your story was a waste of everyone's time, including yours.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
38,967 posts, read 27,328,653 times
Reputation: 15908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tres34578 View Post
nope not drugs nor getting arrested or anything such as that. Have been squeaky clean about it. It was a matter that had a lot of medical and education background behind it. Rather not getting into it. But this was a bigger deal and sadly anybody can get this paperwork no problem and told him all about it. It was within the past 5 years so yeah. But I personally think it was a misunderstanding altogether.
I think on the internet, you will find all types of "advice". It can be a good or bad thing, You need to figure out exactly what advice you need to follow and go from there. Two conflicting voices can be true at the same time. You need to figure out which "PART" of that advice you need to absorb in order to get the best result.

A very good lawyer has given me an advice and I'd follow in this case as well, "A good lawyer would only predict but will never promise result, and he/she will always give the clients the worst case scenario."

I am just a civilian, but I DID indeed hear a former Marine Corps recruiter said that a very few get away with lying at the MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station) the lies almost always come out somehow. (He is talking about a past medical condition, not a one time marijuana use)

He always drilled his enlistees to be truthful with HIM. That way, no lies will make it past him and on to the MEPS.

Say if somebody used a false document, If the recruiter missed the ruse, MEPS missed too, MCRD-PI (Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris island) could still catch it when the fingerprints came back from the FBI. Parris island is just one example, there is other too.

I have to assume nobody wants to spend 6 weeks at bootcamp for NOTHING. (hey, if anybody want to take the risk, go right ahead. This is obviously a free country.)

They (the recruiters) are NOT training you to lie but to stick to your story. nobody (the recruiter) has access to your medical records. They know what you tell them. However if you have a condition you admit to then they can look into it. Most likely, they will try and get you to slip up and admit things. It's all just to disqualify people. Sometimes the paperwork does get messed up but that will usually get resolved, we're all human. People lie all the time at meps, and after spending a day and the night before surrounded by the people from your general area then you can usually tell who is lying. It's honestly best not to lie because you'll end up getting discharged from the DEP if you make it past meps the first time. A lot of wasted time and energy for you and all the personnel who assisted you.


I feel the general question like "how many people lie" is a question with no knowable answer. If people “get away with lying to MEPS”, then who knows about it other than the individual? Self-reporting of such deeds are most assuredly greatly exaggerated or severely downplayed.

So your honesty WILL pay off one way or another. Even if they disqualify you for the lack of consistency or some other reasons, at least you still have your own peace of mind.

I have a six years old nephew who wants to join the Marine Corps when he grow up. I will tell you this as an aunt, I would certainly train him to avoid the general b.s. advice like "Everybody lies, so you can get away with it too." Especially nowadays, a private conversation between two friends can be used to against somebody, a facebook post can be used to against somebody, nah, I don't think people can really get away with too many things. However, "Be consistent, and stick to your story" would be a good advice! I would also advice you to be careful of posting things on the internet. Be very careful. Just thought I'd add this part to this post.

Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 06-21-2019 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:22 PM
 
15 posts, read 60,719 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
Lying about it on the original paperwork then coming clean doesn't make you someone that didn't lie. It just makes you someone that lied at different times.

Honesty is the best policy all the time but lying to get to meps then changing your story was a waste of everyone's time, including yours.
well I didn't lie. I told the truth and was honest 100% of the time with recruiter and MEPS. I was pressured to write no on my original paperwork so that he can make his quota by the end of the month. He was wasting everybody's time when I told the truth and not lie while I was at MEPS and I could have been getting correct paperwork like I said I could which would have not been a big deal
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:35 PM
 
15 posts, read 60,719 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I think on the internet, you will find all types of "advice". It can be a good or bad thing, You need to figure out exactly what advice you need to follow and go from there. Two conflicting voices can be true at the same time. You need to figure out which "PART" of that advice you need to absorb in order to get the best result.

A very good lawyer has given me an advice and I'd follow in this case as well, "A good lawyer would only predict but will never promise result, and he/she will always give the clients the worst case scenario."

I am just a civilian, but I DID indeed hear a former Marine Corps recruiter said that a very few get away with lying at the MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station) the lies almost always come out somehow. (He is talking about a past medical condition, not a one time marijuana use)

He always drilled his enlistees to be truthful with HIM. That way, no lies will make it past him and on to the MEPS.

Say if somebody used a false document, If the recruiter missed the ruse, MEPS missed too, MCRD-PI (Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris island) could still catch it when the fingerprints came back from the FBI. Parris island is just one example, there is other too.

I have to assume nobody wants to spend 6 weeks at bootcamp for NOTHING. (hey, if anybody want to take the risk, go right ahead. This is obviously a free country.)

They (the recruiters) are NOT training you to lie but to stick to your story. nobody (the recruiter) has access to your medical records. They know what you tell them. However if you have a condition you admit to then they can look into it. Most likely, they will try and get you to slip up and admit things. It's all just to disqualify people. Sometimes the paperwork does get messed up but that will usually get resolved, we're all human. People lie all the time at meps, and after spending a day and the night before surrounded by the people from your general area then you can usually tell who is lying. It's honestly best not to lie because you'll end up getting discharged from the DEP if you make it past meps the first time. A lot of wasted time and energy for you and all the personnel who assisted you.


I feel the general question like "how many people lie" is a question with no knowable answer. If people “get away with lying to MEPS”, then who knows about it other than the individual? Self-reporting of such deeds are most assuredly greatly exaggerated or severely downplayed.

So your honesty WILL pay off one way or another. Even if they disqualify you for the lack of consistency or some other reasons, at least you still have your own peace of mind.

I have a six years old nephew who wants to join the Marine Corps when he grow up. I will tell you this as an aunt, I would certainly train him to avoid the general b.s. advice like "Everybody lies, so you can get away with it too." Especially nowadays, a private conversation between two friends can be used to against somebody, a facebook post can be used to against somebody, nah, I don't think people can really get away with too many things. However, "Be consistent, and stick to your story" would be a good advice! I would also advice you to be careful of posting things on the internet. Be very careful. Just thought I'd add this part to this post.
Thank you for the advice and I am getting mixed results from everybody. Yes I am very careful what I post but I feel very alone in this process and nobody was willing to help me in my personal life or know what to do. I'm trying to limit to what and who my identity is but, I want future applicants to understand that this is the result of being honest the whole time. However, my situation is case-by-case and I won't be upset if I am pdq but it would be good to know. If the situation was smaller like I use to take vitamins than I would of mined not talking about it nor mentioning it at MEPS but this situation has a lot under the microscope. Like I said this status was bigger than anybody else and there are many loops to find. If you find one document you can see a lot of other documents. My friend who was a drill sergeant is saying I did the right thing and same with a lot of other people. Other saying I ****ed up. I rather get DQ versus discharged. My question is should I just stay with the recruiter or not because I am very unsure if he is willing to help me out or not. I called him the other day to say I handed him everything that is under the ****ing sun and now I have to wait. I don't know if I should wait to call him or not.
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:55 PM
 
13,754 posts, read 13,188,962 times
Reputation: 26019
If you really want to know, walk in his office. I can't stand waiting around for someone. Don't worry about whether you threw him under the bus. He's really no one in the grand scheme of your life and future. You need to know what's the next step.
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Washington state
6,972 posts, read 4,808,519 times
Reputation: 21741
I tried to go into the Army Reserve and while my recruiter was OK, his boss was a total b***h.

I was on the Delayed Entry Program and finally got up to Oakland to ship out. This was when the Gulf War was ending and the Army was desperately trying to find places for everyone. So they were looking for any reason to not enlist people.

I had had my appendix out years earlier but I hadn't said anything because no one had asked. So when they saw the scar, I had to stop and get all my paperwork from the hospital. That took an extra couple days and the recruiter's boss was furious with me and asked me why I hadn't lied about it. Like, right, I'm going to tell them I operated on myself?

Then when they finally found something to keep me out, she really pulled a nasty one. I had come up to ship out with nothing but the $5 in my pocket, no transportation, and no one I knew in the city. I had been living in San Jose at the time and the recruiter drove me up to Oakland. When I was turned down, the recruiter's boss (I don't know what she was and I've never been interested enough to look it up) refused to let the recruiter come back and get me and told me to find my own way back. And she didn't have the guts to tell me herself. The recruiter had to tell me. Even the people at the center in Oakland were shocked by that one. Honestly, in the long run, I was glad I didn't get in if that's what military life is really like.

So I personally hate recruitment offices with a passion. Their whole function is to get people into the Services so they can get their nice bonuses and nothing else. If they can get you in in ways that will cause you trouble later on, they'll do it and won't care about it.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Oak Bowery
2,871 posts, read 2,032,674 times
Reputation: 9147
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
I tried to go into the Army Reserve and while my recruiter was OK, his boss was a total b***h.

I was on the Delayed Entry Program and finally got up to Oakland to ship out. This was when the Gulf War was ending and the Army was desperately trying to find places for everyone. So they were looking for any reason to not enlist people.

I had had my appendix out years earlier but I hadn't said anything because no one had asked. So when they saw the scar, I had to stop and get all my paperwork from the hospital. That took an extra couple days and the recruiter's boss was furious with me and asked me why I hadn't lied about it. Like, right, I'm going to tell them I operated on myself?

Then when they finally found something to keep me out, she really pulled a nasty one. I had come up to ship out with nothing but the $5 in my pocket, no transportation, and no one I knew in the city. I had been living in San Jose at the time and the recruiter drove me up to Oakland. When I was turned down, the recruiter's boss (I don't know what she was and I've never been interested enough to look it up) refused to let the recruiter come back and get me and told me to find my own way back. And she didn't have the guts to tell me herself. The recruiter had to tell me. Even the people at the center in Oakland were shocked by that one. Honestly, in the long run, I was glad I didn't get in if that's what military life is really like.

So I personally hate recruitment offices with a passion. Their whole function is to get people into the Services so they can get their nice bonuses and nothing else. If they can get you in in ways that will cause you trouble later on, they'll do it and won't care about it.
If you want to judge the entire military of the supposed actions of one person, I’m glad you didn’t get it also.

I suspect that you’ll never hear about the good recruiters but I know of several. We have a great example in the forum who has ***alway*** gone above and beyond to offer advice to those who have issues. I guarantee you our local expert isn’t getting rich either from simply meeting goals.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,866 posts, read 11,156,320 times
Reputation: 7123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tres34578 View Post
well I didn't lie. I told the truth and was honest 100% of the time with recruiter and MEPS. I was pressured to write no on my original paperwork so that he can make his quota by the end of the month. He was wasting everybody's time when I told the truth and not lie while I was at MEPS and I could have been getting correct paperwork like I said I could which would have not been a big deal
I hear you and not getting down on you. I just want you to understand that you did in fact lie, even though you were pressured to do so. That would have been the time to make your stand, with the Recruiter.

Letting the Recruiter pressure you into lying and then coming clean at MEPS had no possibility of a good outcome.

I was a Navy Recruiting Supervisor for 15 years and interviewed every applicant prior to going to MEPS to ensure they were not lying and ensure that my Recruiters had not pressured them to lie. If they told me that all of their paperwork was accurate and that they were not lying, then went to MEPS and came clean about something then had lied about...I had no sympathy for them.

They would get disqualified and then come asking for consideration to which I would explain that they had their chance to come clean with me, when we could have fixed it, but at this point the damage was done.

Something else that happens a lot on Recruiting that Recruiters take the heat for...everyone knows someone that thinks they are an expert about the military. A father, brother, uncle, cousin, etc... The family military expert instructs the applicant to "keep your mouth shut". When they crack under pressure at MEPS or Boot Camp a lot of times they say their Recruiter told them to lie because they feel that will give them the best chance of recovering from their lie.

I'm not saying Recruiters don't ever coach applicants, I'm just saying that your honesty is first and foremost your responsibility.

I wish you the best of luck. I would also recommend you contact them and make them provide information on your status.
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