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Hello, of the five major branches: Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Marines, Navy, how do the dynamics of relationships hierarchy between enlisted and officer personnel differ and why? For instance, I have heard that the Navy is especially traditional about social separation between enlisted and officers ( Three distinct dining facilities on Navy Ships.) I have also heard though despite technically being against the rules in the more "corporate" air force some enlisted types will get a beer at the bar with the CO. So, how are the unwritten and written rules regarding Officer Enlisted dynamics different across the branches?
All 3 (not even including space force because I don't have a clue about that but assume it's different)
Have their own different and unique cultures and from base to base or unit to unit those cultures will change.
It's almost impossible to make broad brush generalizations about branches but I will say personally as an E4 I've had beers with an O5 at a strip club at a far away location. Not going to post in up in general message PM me if you want more info.
Generally speaking, I think that the Air Force seems to be the most lax about relationships, though they are still professional. At least in my experience.
On the whole, though, a lot will come down to the personality of the officer in question and the mood that s/he sets for the team. I'm a pretty laid back guy and, while there is still respect for rank separation, it's good to know that my Sailors feel good about cracking jokes or trying to prank me. But that's me. I know that not everyone would like that.
Then you have the special warfare community, where there is more of a brotherhood and less emphasis on rigid rank (e.g. everyone in the SEALs goes by first names, officer and enlisted, etc.).
After I got out of the Army I became a DW; my husband was an E4 (retired as a 1sg) when we married, but I was friendly with DWs of all ranks.
DH went on to smaller subsets under the umbrella of "MP" and our circle got tighter. Outside of work Officers and their spouses were all on a first name basis but were addressed by their proper rank while in uniform.
I don't think this would have been the case if DH had remained a 95B.
Hello, of the five major branches: Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Marines, Navy, how do the dynamics of relationships hierarchy between enlisted and officer personnel differ and why? For instance, I have heard that the Navy is especially traditional about social separation between enlisted and officers ( Three distinct dining facilities on Navy Ships.) I have also heard though despite technically being against the rules in the more "corporate" air force some enlisted types will get a beer at the bar with the CO. So, how are the unwritten and written rules regarding Officer Enlisted dynamics different across the branches?
Thanks
I spent 37+ years in uniform US Army. I retired as a 1SG/E8. I had 9 years of active duty and the remainder was national guard. It is and has been tradition that officers have their exclusive club, ostensibly to do planning. It is frowned upon that the two mix intimately but not so much on socializing. The better unit cohesiveness comes from familiarity so we have mandatory fun days. Professionally the senior NCOs are there as a buffer to keep the officers from direct control of the lower ranks.
melaniej65 that is a great perspective as well. Spouses of service members interact in the unit's "Family Support Group". While there is active participation from some it is a very select group as well unless the unit is deployed forward. The groups are also having a large turn over depending upon the unit with soldiers moving to other locations or units.
Most of my career was on submarines. I always thought it was funny that the crew is served food that is hot directly off the grill. But wardroom food is sent to a separate pantry for the food to cool, before it is transferred onto special gold embossed china, all the food served to the officers is at room temp.
My wife and I were always very active in church. At one duty station, we were attending some church social functions and an ensign [O1] introduced himself to all of the ladies by his first name. I slipped one time, and called him by his first name. He immediately stood up and reprimanded me for that error. We were both in civilian clothing, but he wanted to be called by his rank by all enlisted. The ladies at that event were shocked by his behavior. So after he was finished chewing me out, my wife called him 'ensign' and all the rest of the ladies followed suit. From that day on, whenever he introduced himself to civilians by his first name, they would correct him that he was to be called 'ensign'. We laughed about it for months.
On my last boat, the command decided to have a formal ship's dinner [the only instance of that I ever saw during my 20 year career]. We were ordered to attend with our wives. The seating arrangement was worked out by the XO. We heard the officers whining for days because they were being forced to sit among the enlisted, one officer per table. The officer who sat at our table brought his new bride. In the dinner conversation, we learned that she had been working as a prostitute up in Victoria city BC when they met [it is a short distance from Subase Bangor where we were homeported]. In conversation, the topic of females serving on subs came up and she blurted out that if females were ever stationed on subs, she would immediately break both of her husband's legs so he could not go to sea.
At my last duty station, I was an E6, many of the contractors we had were accustomed to calling anyone in uniform 'chief'. Among my duties were specifying contract details and signing for work completion, so the contractors were constantly calling me 'chief'. I got into a bit of trouble over that. The chiefs accused me of presenting myself as a chief. They wanted to press charges against me for it. To resolve the issue, every time a contractor called me 'chief' I had to correct them that I was properly referred to as ET1 [E - T - one], that was a pain but it was what I had to do to stay out of trouble with my superiors.
Most of my career was on submarines. I always thought it was funny that the crew is served food that is hot directly off the grill. But wardroom food is sent to a separate pantry for the food to cool, before it is transferred onto special gold embossed china, all the food served to the officers is at room temp.
My wife and I were always very active in church. At one duty station, we were attending some church social functions and an ensign [O1] introduced himself to all of the ladies by his first name. I slipped one time, and called him by his first name. He immediately stood up and reprimanded me for that error. We were both in civilian clothing, but he wanted to be called by his rank by all enlisted. The ladies at that event were shocked by his behavior. So after he was finished chewing me out, my wife called him 'ensign' and all the rest of the ladies followed suit. From that day on, whenever he introduced himself to civilians by his first name, they would correct him that he was to be called 'ensign'. We laughed about it for months.
On my last boat, the command decided to have a formal ship's dinner [the only instance of that I ever saw during my 20 year career]. We were ordered to attend with our wives. The seating arrangement was worked out by the XO. We heard the officers whining for days because they were being forced to sit among the enlisted, one officer per table. The officer who sat at our table brought his new bride. In the dinner conversation, we learned that she had been working as a prostitute up in Victoria city BC when they met [it is a short distance from Subase Bangor where we were homeported]. In conversation, the topic of females serving on subs came up and she blurted out that if females were ever stationed on subs, she would immediately break both of her husband's legs so he could not go to sea.
At my last duty station, I was an E6, many of the contractors we had were accustomed to calling anyone in uniform 'chief'. Among my duties were specifying contract details and signing for work completion, so the contractors were constantly calling me 'chief'. I got into a bit of trouble over that. The chiefs accused me of presenting myself as a chief. They wanted to press charges against me for it. To resolve the issue, every time a contractor called me 'chief' I had to correct them that I was properly referred to as ET1 [E - T - one], that was a pain but it was what I had to do to stay out of trouble with my superiors.
That is a good point
I will say that the temperature of the food I had severed to me in the wardroom was never really that off to make me uncomfortable. But it did help that I always tried to sit on the side of the table opposite the door as the captain always passes to his right
Moving on, that ENS and those chiefs seem like they were out of control
Hmmmm, back then, some did, some could, some don't. I was one of the ones who didn't.
One time, the Chief suggested we all go out to a ball game together but told me I would have "to take off the bars" and that was just one of those bridges I could not cross. To be the God I was to my troops, I could not be a mortal.
Finally, rank with civilians can be interesting. I was an O-2 department head as the "Provost Marshal" and identified myself as LTjg often to those on the phone (though after this "incident", I might have just gone with "Lieutenant").
A woman called up to complain about a ticket, I identified myself, took the complaint, investigated...and told her the ticket was correct. WE-LL, when she wrote my Admiral, I was identified in the letters as "Lieutenant J. G. Ounce.".
As to assuming a pay grade, maybe I did, maybe I didn't, I don't recall so many decades ago. One thing about that operation was that since we were located where, by necessity, I had a picture directory at the gate house of all the flag officers in the sea services, my patrol officers wore federal type police uniforms so they could not be lorded over. There I was calling a petty officer "Sergeant" when we were in field operations. In any event, assuming appearances that people might identify with better was part of the show.
I was an E-6 with over 8 years when I got out.
Our tiny duty station with a crew of 18 observed rank as best we could. We had a volleyball team and everyone was on it; the Operations Officer embarrassed himself once when he accidentally called me by my first name.. He turned red! It would have been perfectly acceptable to call me by my last name, but not my first. If I had been a Chief Petty Officer (E-7 and above) I would have been addressed as "Chief" - never anything else.
Lifetime friends are made in the service. I am still friends with my roommate from 1966 and my roommate from 1968. Until this year we held annual reunions for the crew of 1969. There are about 10 of us left; one of them is coming through town in October. We will have one last beer.... Watching old friends fade away is tough. We were all so young and unattached back then...
BTW: You know what to do if a Navy Chief calls you by the wrong name? ......... You damn well change your name! The Chief is never wrong!
......Lifetime friends are made in the service. I am still friends with my roommate from 1966 and my roommate from 1968. Until this year we held annual reunions for the crew of 1969. There are about 10 of us left; one of them is coming through town in October. We will have one last beer.... Watching old friends fade away is tough. We were all so young and unattached back then...
Maybe, it is no guarantee that such will happen........and I will leave it at that.
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