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Old 04-21-2022, 04:14 AM
Location: Central Massachusetts
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Interesting that we are going to go away from the 5.56 and 7.62 ammo and replace those weapons with two weapons that use the same round of a 6.8mm. Replacing the M4 and M247 with two new Sig Sauer’s family of Next-Generation Squad Weapons

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Old 04-21-2022, 04:59 AM
Location: Great Britain
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The downgrading of Russian conventional capabilities by the Pentsgon given Ukraine, and the fact that the rest of NATO are unlikely to adopt the 6.8mm, means many believe the US Army will just purchase an initial run and that will be it.

The 6.5mm Creedmoor is favoured in many European NATO countries and it seems there is a difference of opinion emerging.

The highly respected Defence Analyst Nicholas Drummond stated he was not a fan of the US Army's proposed 6.8 super velocity HVAP ammunition designed to penetrate body armour. It’s way too powerful and is likely to create increased weight and recoil issues instead of fixing them. Accurate shooting and training will be more difficult too.

It also should be noted that the British Army has also tested 6.5 mm Creedmoor in a re-barrelled version of its 7.62 mm Sharpshooter rifle (L129A1) and achieved stunning results. The simple conclusion is that 6.5 mm Creedmoor is a low risk solution that allows infantry sections to configured around a single calibre.

Originally Posted by National Interest

Nicholas Drummond has opined barrel wear and recoil are major practical concerns with the program as well. Still, more issues will be decreased ammunition loads (since the round is twice as heavy as the 5.56mm), increased collateral damage risk (given the round is twice as powerful), as well as potential political problems with plastic bullets amidst Allied governments.

The chances of Allied nations either adopting the significantly more powerful round are also next to zero, particularly given the slew of recent rifle acquisitions among NATO and non-NATO countries alike, such as France and New Zealand, who have only just transitioned to Stoner assault rifles to finally use “stanag” magazines. The slight ballistic advantage the 6.8mm gives over the existing 7.62x51mm round neither ever justified the program from a financial perspective.

Word in the industry is that the program has not reined in recoil nor navigated the reduced round-count dilemma, and that U.S. Army will purchase an initial run of the rifle but then will let it, like all antecedent programs before it, fade into ignominy in short-order. Given that Ukraine has peeled back the hood on Russian military modernization efforts, and that there is nothing “next-Gen” about the rifles themselves, it appears that the program will meet another inglorious end.

Has Ukraine Killed the Army's Next Generation Squad Weapon? - National Interest
Originally Posted by National Interest

The EVOLYS was unveiled in the two most widely used NATO calibers—5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm NATO—last May, while variants in additional calibers, including 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 Remington, are currently in development. The weapon combines the belt-fed machine gun firepower with assault rifle ergonomics and, depending on variation, weighs either 5.5 or 6.2 kilograms—far lighter than current light machine guns. It features a patented lateral feed mechanism that allows for its compact size.

Various optical sights can be mounted in-line, while the iron sights can also remain present. It offers ambidextrous controls, while all actions, including belt engagement, can be done with just one hand. The select-fire machine gun also provides for semi-automatic fire for point target engagement and fully automatic suppressive fire.

The EVOLYS is notable in that it was developed to be capable of having a suppressor permanently fitted without impacting the weapon's performance. The light machine gun was also produced using new techniques in 3D printing as well as advanced polymers. Both factors reduce the weapon’s weight, which is reported to be upwards of thirty percent lighter than the FN Minimi.

It has a cyclical rate of 750 rounds per minute, while the gas operated short-stroke pistol machine gun, which fires from an open bolt, has an effective range of 800 meters with the 5.56mm round or 1,000 meters with the 7.62mm cartridge.

French Special Forces operators may be the first to employ the weapon, but others are interested—the British Army has already ordered samples for testing purposes.

Defense analysts have suggested the British military could replace the FN Herstal Minimi with the EVOLYS, which may convince other NATO partners that this is the light machine of the future.

French Special Forces to Adopt New FN Light Machine Gun - National Interest
It also seems that US Special Forces are fans of the 6.5mm.

Originally Posted by National Defense

Recent SOCOM requests for proposals have also identified interest in weapon designs chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, with one recent announcement identifying a desire for a lightweight assault machine gun in 6.5 Creedmoor as a possible replacement to the current MK48 assault machine gun chambered in 7.62x51 mm NATO.

Introduced by Hornady Manufacturing Co. around 2007, Padgett said that 6.5 Creedmoor is one of five calibers of polymer cased ammunition currently manufactured by PCP Tactical, along with .50 caliber, .338 Norma Magnum, 7.62x51 mm NATO, “and some work with .260 Remington for the SOF guys.”

It was best to compare the 6.5 Creedmoor to the “traditional” 7.62x51 mm NATO round, he said.

“My ballistician would say this much more eloquently, but basically to get a better ‘ballistic coefficient,’ you want a longer, skinnier projectile,” he explained.

“The 6.5 Creedmoor offers just that in a package that is the same overall length as a .308 (7.62x51 mm) cartridge case. But now you’re getting increased velocity and a better ballistic coefficient, which means you’re going to have increased engagement distance. It’s not going to drop as fast.

It’s not going to be affected by wind as much as the traditional 7.62. You’re gaining engagement distance and lethality with the extra benefit that it works in existing 7.62 length chambers. So it’s basically a barrel swap to take existing guns and turn them into 6.5 Creedmoor guns.”

Special Operations Community Embraces ‘Wildcat’ Calibers - National Defense

Last edited by Brave New World; 04-21-2022 at 05:57 AM..
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Old 04-22-2022, 03:26 PM
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The recoil hurts just to watch it

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Old 09-08-2023, 06:31 AM
Location: Great Britain
25,876 posts, read 12,195,616 times
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It looks like members of UK response units such as the Royal Marines (3 Commando Brigade), Parachute Regiment (16th Air Assault Brigade) and the Rangers Regiment (Army Special Operations Brigade) will increasingly be issued with US Knight Stoner KS-1 (SR16) rifles designated as L403A1, which will be manufactured in Britain by British company Edgar Brothers.

KS-1: All the gen on the British Army and Royal Marines' new rifle - Forces News (7th September 2023)

Britain’s Commandos to get new assault rifles - Royal Navy (7th September 2023)

The other specialist infantry weapon being the Colt Diemaco C8 (L119A1/A2), whilst the Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) Standard Sharpshooter L129A2 rifle is to be further improved with new Leupold scopes and HuxWrx suppressors, making it more accurate and quieter. They will also be equipped with an Envision Technology ballistic calculator and a Pixels-on-Target thermal sight.

It should be noted that the British Army Special Operations Brigade is separate to UK Special Forces (UKSF), who can utilise and use any weapons they so wish.

What impact this will have on Project Grayburn and possible options for an SA80 L85A3 and shortened carbine variant, the L22A2, as as of yet unknown, with these weapons due to be replaced later this decade, with an announcement due by 2025.

List of equipment of the British Army - Wikipedia

Last edited by Brave New World; 09-08-2023 at 07:12 AM..
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Old 09-08-2023, 11:07 AM
Location: Great Britain
25,876 posts, read 12,195,616 times
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Old Yesterday, 10:16 AM
540 posts, read 398,145 times
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Don't leave all your new stuff on the beach next time.
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Old Yesterday, 01:34 PM
Location: San Diego CA
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All this new high tech weaponry. Member of the iron sights 7.62 M14 club.
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Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
18,701 posts, read 21,650,099 times
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I'd like to know the specific ballistics of the new bullet and the MV based on barrel length. I assume a G7 coefficient is calculated based on the looks of the bullet.

It could be a nice step up for big game at yardage where the 6.5CM doesn't pack enough punch (IMO).
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Old Today, 03:48 PM
Location: Great Britain
25,876 posts, read 12,195,616 times
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Originally Posted by forsheamountain View Post

Don't leave all your new stuff on the beach next time.

LOL -I think most of the requested weapons were for the Local Volunteer Force (LVF) which was also known as the Home Guard.

The Real 'Dad's Army' - Imperial War Museum

In terms of regular infantry weapons, they were mainly Lee Enfield Rifles and were produced at the Royal Small Arms Factory and Royal Ordnance Factories (ROF's).

British Infantry Weapons WW2 - Quartermaster

American Infantry Weapons WW2 - Quartermaster
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