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Old 09-26-2023, 09:09 AM
 
6,091 posts, read 3,330,622 times
Reputation: 10932

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Not my interpretation. Just hard cold facts. Only one republican since Ronald Reagan in 1984 have won the popular vote in presidential elections. The rest have all had to win via electoral college and lose the popular vote by millions.

You seem to want to discount his 6 years (2190 days) of combat tours. You want to pretend that everyone has a political agenda when they accomplish their jobs. You want to believe the twice impeached, 4 times indicted, found liable for sexual assault, and facing 91 federal charges in 4 completely separate districts. Indicted by 48 regular people across all of those states to face serious charges. Especially having nuclear secrets in his bathroom and waving war plans in front of people without a security clearance. If you had even one of those classified documents you and I would be in jail now waiting trial. Ask Airman Teixeira what he is up to now waiting trial in jail for doing just that.

You can do all of that because it is your right. It doesn't mean you are right nor does it mean you are smart. I consider your comments to be ignorant and beneath anyone that has actually served in the military. To want to follow Donald Trump who thinks we in uniform are all chumps and that any wounded among us should be locked away never to be seen from or heard from. So go ahead and follow that failed TV star.
What does any of that nonsense have to do with the military recruitment problem?

I get it, you don’t like Trump. But there is a forum for that, it’s just not this one.

But I’ll try again to turn this thread back on topic.

Milley turned his JCS position political, there is no doubt about that. Why did he do it? Self preservation, pure and simple. I think he correctly read the changing winds and was able to appease the incoming administration.

I read an article in Stars and Stripes about Milley today. I always pick up a copy at the DFAC everyday.

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/...-11475270.html

I think Milley did some things I agreed with, and did some things I vehemently disagree with.

The things he did or thought that I agree with:

1) His decision, along with Esper, to advise Trump to stand down on striking Iran when Bolton wanted him to hit hard. That was the right thing to do.

2) His thoughts that we must end the Ukrainian conflict immediately due to the risk of escalation. I 100% agree.

Things I didn’t like that he did:

1) Calling China and undermining his Commander in Chief.

2) Advising everyone to get on board the DEI train.

3) Getting upset that Trump trotted him out to the church that they stopped the rioters from burning.

4) Keeping quiet about advising Biden not to abandon Bagram Air Base.

Let me restate this once again because I think it got lost in your tirade against Trump.

The politicization of the JCS is hurting recruiting. Period.

Not only that, but assuming General Brown is the next CJCS, he will likely need to be removed if a Republican takes the White House in 2024. The current administration has politicized the military, so now they will likely be treated as political appointments, just like every other banana republic.

I’m disappointed with that development, and I hope we can find a way to get back to how it used to be.

Maybe General Brown can figure out a way to un-politicize his appointment? Will he even be allowed to do that?

But if he is successful in divorcing himself from politics, it will help recruiting.

 
Old 09-26-2023, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
6,593 posts, read 7,083,282 times
Reputation: 9332
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
What does any of that nonsense have to do with the military recruitment problem?

I get it, you don’t like Trump. But there is a forum for that, it’s just not this one.

But I’ll try again to turn this thread back on topic.

Milley turned his JCS position political, there is no doubt about that. Why did he do it? Self preservation, pure and simple. I think he correctly read the changing winds and was able to appease the incoming administration.

I read an article in Stars and Stripes about Milley today. I always pick up a copy at the DFAC everyday.

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/...-11475270.html

I think Milley did some things I agreed with, and did some things I vehemently disagree with.

The things he did or thought that I agree with:

1) His decision, along with Esper, to advise Trump to stand down on striking Iran when Bolton wanted him to hit hard. That was the right thing to do.

2) His thoughts that we must end the Ukrainian conflict immediately due to the risk of escalation. I 100% agree.

Things I didn’t like that he did:

1) Calling China and undermining his Commander in Chief.

2) Advising everyone to get on board the DEI train.

3) Getting upset that Trump trotted him out to the church that they stopped the rioters from burning.

4) Keeping quiet about advising Biden not to abandon Bagram Air Base.

Let me restate this once again because I think it got lost in your tirade against Trump.

The politicization of the JCS is hurting recruiting. Period.

Not only that, but assuming General Brown is the next CJCS, he will likely need to be removed if a Republican takes the White House in 2024. The current administration has politicized the military, so now they will likely be treated as political appointments, just like every other banana republic.

I’m disappointed with that development, and I hope we can find a way to get back to how it used to be.

Maybe General Brown can figure out a way to un-politicize his appointment? Will he even be allowed to do that?

But if he is successful in divorcing himself from politics, it will help recruiting.
Recruiting is in the tank for many reasons. Most recently because Tommy Tuberville has decided to make a grandstand. Also a disfunctional congress that is deciding today to shut down the government, again. Last time republicans under the former president had the longest government shut down. I have been in long enough to have gone through 3. In my 37 years I have seen fewer and fewer available military slots because of downsizing. In downsizing they also decide to spend more money on new toys and not say fix the housing complexes at all of our bases. Instead of giving soldiers a living wage they force soldiers to live on the bare minimum. That families are neglected and discounted by decisions to buy a new jet instead of maybe a new set of buildings for soldiers and famiilies can live. They might also decide to pay a bit more so that soldiers do not have to file for food stamps just to make ends meet. So yeah we can ask why are the numbers so low.
 
Old 09-26-2023, 10:49 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,385 posts, read 10,650,173 times
Reputation: 12699
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Thank you. I just honestly cannot understand with the cultish appeal DJT has. If he had to debate George W Bush, Donald Trump would have his lunch handed to him. Bush would laugh and say "people think I talk crazy, listen to that crazy talk about you (Trump) saying you beat me in the primaries in 2016 and Obama in the general election." I mention GWB is because he beat John Kerry in 2004 with 60% of the popular vote. It is also the last time I was registered as a republican.

For everyone's information I am not!! I repeat I am NOT! a democrat, nor a republican though I have been both. In my state I get to play and enjoy my vote. I am unenrolled. What that means is in primaries I can pick which ballot I pull. I can pull a democrat, republican or libertarian ballots. With that I get to make a choice that can affect the result of an election. I voted for DJT in 2016 but Joe Biden in 2020. My votes were taken for me and not for anyone else here.

So until the republican party stops following a disgraced candidate I will vote for the other team. They at least seem to be governing and not trying to burn down the house and crash the country for political and monitary gains.
I live in PA, which has a closed primary. I'm a registered Republican. I don't intend to change. With a closed primary, independents don't get a vote in the primary election.

I have voted for both Republican and Democrats in the general election. I voted for both Bushes twice each and voted for Obama twice. I would never vote for Trump or anyone who has supported him.
 
Old 09-26-2023, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,352,754 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Thank you. I just honestly cannot understand with the cultish appeal DJT has.
We live in an odd time.

I have no doubt that in ten years there will be a name for it.

But a TV reality show character can become so popular that when the actor playing said character gets in front of a crowd and does his schtick the masses will follow that character anywhere.

I have never seen a single episode of Apprentice, yet sometimes I feel surrounded by fans of that character.

When I remind people that it was only a TV show character, they stop a minute, to realise that they have been red pilled.

People have been sucked into a fake reality of a scripted TV reality show, so badly that they want it to be reality.

I am not a Dem, not a Repub, I am just standing on the sidelines watching as our society goes unhinged.
 
Old 09-26-2023, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
6,593 posts, read 7,083,282 times
Reputation: 9332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
We live in an odd time.

I have no doubt that in ten years there will be a name for it.

But a TV reality show character can become so popular that when the actor playing said character gets in front of a crowd and does his schtick the masses will follow that character anywhere.

I have never seen a single episode of Apprentice, yet sometimes I feel surrounded by fans of that character.

When I remind people that it was only a TV show character, they stop a minute, to realise that they have been red pilled.

People have been sucked into a fake reality of a scripted TV reality show, so badly that they want it to be reality.

I am not a Dem, not a Repub, I am just standing on the sidelines watching as our society goes unhinged.


In my FB world I point people at a podcast. A lot of people get information from them and there are some really good ones and some clunkers. However I have one that I ask my friends to listen to before they actually say more dumb stuff. I ask them to listen to the podcast titled "Is It Just Me Or Have We All Lost Our Minds". It is the work of Jennifer Horn a former NH Republican party chairperson. Her first guest in the 13 podcasts is George Conway another staunch Republican. It has gotten the attention of a couple of them. For others I am dismayed but as I learned in the army never to leave anyone behind so I keep trying.
 
Old 09-27-2023, 03:22 AM
 
6,091 posts, read 3,330,622 times
Reputation: 10932
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Recruiting is in the tank for many reasons. Most recently because Tommy Tuberville has decided to make a grandstand. Also a disfunctional congress that is deciding today to shut down the government, again. Last time republicans under the former president had the longest government shut down. I have been in long enough to have gone through 3. In my 37 years I have seen fewer and fewer available military slots because of downsizing. In downsizing they also decide to spend more money on new toys and not say fix the housing complexes at all of our bases. Instead of giving soldiers a living wage they force soldiers to live on the bare minimum. That families are neglected and discounted by decisions to buy a new jet instead of maybe a new set of buildings for soldiers and famiilies can live. They might also decide to pay a bit more so that soldiers do not have to file for food stamps just to make ends meet. So yeah we can ask why are the numbers so low.
I understand what Tuberville did, and even though I agree with him, I think he chose the wrong hill to die on.

I find it really odd how leftists are so bloodthirsty about abortion. I also think it is insane for the DOD to pay out travel money and per diem so people can get abortions. Why can’t people pay for their own poor decision making?

My personal thoughts on abortion is that I think it is wrong, but I also don’t like the idea of getting in people’s business. Why should I care what others are doing if it doesn’t hurt me? The answer is that I don’t care. If someone wants to kill unborn children, I’m not in that equation. It’s between God and them on judgment day.

Christians have to walk a very fine line. They are not supposed to judge people, but they aren’t supposed to sit back and allow evil to happen, either. I see both sides of that argument. I choose to stay out of people’s business, and it’s possible that I will have to answer for that on judgment day. Why did you sit back and allow it to happen and not do anything to stop it?

But here is the absolute bottom line here. There are many, many conservative young men and women, who see the DOD using taxpayer money to fund abortions and it makes them very, very angry. Enough to make them not want to join? Absolutely.
 
Old 09-27-2023, 04:23 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
6,593 posts, read 7,083,282 times
Reputation: 9332
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
I understand what Tuberville did, and even though I agree with him, I think he chose the wrong hill to die on.

I find it really odd how leftists are so bloodthirsty about abortion. I also think it is insane for the DOD to pay out travel money and per diem so people can get abortions. Why can’t people pay for their own poor decision making?

My personal thoughts on abortion is that I think it is wrong, but I also don’t like the idea of getting in people’s business. Why should I care what others are doing if it doesn’t hurt me? The answer is that I don’t care. If someone wants to kill unborn children, I’m not in that equation. It’s between God and them on judgment day.

Christians have to walk a very fine line. They are not supposed to judge people, but they aren’t supposed to sit back and allow evil to happen, either. I see both sides of that argument. I choose to stay out of people’s business, and it’s possible that I will have to answer for that on judgment day. Why did you sit back and allow it to happen and not do anything to stop it?

But here is the absolute bottom line here. There are many, many conservative young men and women, who see the DOD using taxpayer money to fund abortions and it makes them very, very angry. Enough to make them not want to join? Absolutely.
But you and all those that are anti-abortion are politicizing the military with this stupid idiot in the Senate. He is hurting our military and people like you that have a political agenda are not speaking up against it.

On your abortion statement that Leftists are bloodthirsty is absolutely a false statement. Abortion is women's healthcare and you as a man have no say in it. You do not have the right to control a woman's right to start or not a family. It is her body that becomes the vessel and if she doesn't want to carry a baby that was forcefully planted in her it is her right. It is also her and her doctor's right to privacy when it comes to her life and or the life of the baby. Before you come out that lefties are asking for abortion after birth, stop the complete exaggeration. Less than 1% of all abortions come after the 21st week. Those abortions are for the life of the mother or cases where the baby is not viable and will not live after birth. Those cases put the mother's life in jeopardy yet anti abortionists like you think it is your place to be in the conference room where that heart wrenching decision is being made. Those cases are usually for families that are looking forward to a new baby but as life has it they have to make a gut wrenching decision. There are a lot of recent cases of this and you do not have to look very far. So since you decided to bring up this abortion issue, it is also a reason recruitment and retention is in the toilet. No women want to be in the army and subject to that. I say no more rape babies should be allowed. So go on and let's see what your reply is to this.
 
Old 09-27-2023, 07:11 AM
 
28,661 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post

Christians have to walk a very fine line. They are not supposed to judge people, but they aren’t supposed to sit back and allow evil to happen, either. I see both sides of that argument. I choose to stay out of people’s business, and it’s possible that I will have to answer for that on judgment day. Why did you sit back and allow it to happen and not do anything to stop it?
Well, this is off topic, but speaking from my own Christian perspective, what I do not see, either in the Old Testament or the new, is any call for God's people to stand between pagans and their pagan follies. I don't see that anywhere.

Speak out on the right thing to do, yes. Create a haven of love that women would want to join even as unwed mothers, yes.

Make unbelievers do the right thing using their own carnal weapons (government power), no.

None of us believes the spirit of an aborted baby is lost to God anyway. But they don't really care about the babies anyway, or their attitudes about welfare would be different. I suspect a lot of those people merely want to make sure women who have sex outside of marriage get punished for it.
 
Old 09-27-2023, 08:26 AM
 
6,091 posts, read 3,330,622 times
Reputation: 10932
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
But you and all those that are anti-abortion are politicizing the military with this stupid idiot in the Senate. He is hurting our military and people like you that have a political agenda are not speaking up against it.

On your abortion statement that Leftists are bloodthirsty is absolutely a false statement. Abortion is women's healthcare and you as a man have no say in it. You do not have the right to control a woman's right to start or not a family. It is her body that becomes the vessel and if she doesn't want to carry a baby that was forcefully planted in her it is her right. It is also her and her doctor's right to privacy when it comes to her life and or the life of the baby. Before you come out that lefties are asking for abortion after birth, stop the complete exaggeration. Less than 1% of all abortions come after the 21st week. Those abortions are for the life of the mother or cases where the baby is not viable and will not live after birth. Those cases put the mother's life in jeopardy yet anti abortionists like you think it is your place to be in the conference room where that heart wrenching decision is being made. Those cases are usually for families that are looking forward to a new baby but as life has it they have to make a gut wrenching decision. There are a lot of recent cases of this and you do not have to look very far. So since you decided to bring up this abortion issue, it is also a reason recruitment and retention is in the toilet. No women want to be in the army and subject to that. I say no more rape babies should be allowed. So go on and let's see what your reply is to this.
Retention is in the toilet because abortion is under attack? I’m not following that line of reasoning. Any military woman or military dependent in America can get an abortion. All they have to do is travel for it if they happen to be in a state that restricts it.

If a woman is saying no to military service solely for the reason that she may have to pay out of pocket for an abortion, then I agree, she shouldn’t serve.

I don’t want my tax dollars paying for their travel or procedure, regardless.

Now if you want to make a counter argument that we would just waste that money on other frivolous things, I would definitely agree with you. I’m against gender studies in Pakistan, and spending billions in Ukraine just as much as I am against the DOD spending money on abortions.

But there are a lot of people on the right, and I am not one of the zealots, but these people are angry enough over abortion that it would stop them from joining the military. They don’t have respect for leaders who support and promote abortion. I consider it a minor issue that I don’t really think much about.

But to them, especially their parents, and we are talking mostly about southern people, they see abortion as a red line.

They see Lloyd Austin say this

“[O]ne in five of our troops are women,” Austin told Tuberville. “And they don’t get a chance to choose where they’re stationed, so almost 80,000 of our women are stationed in places where they don’t have access to non-covered reproductive healthcare.”

First of all, just replacing the word abortion with wording such as “reproductive healthcare”, is highly offensive to many. They see right through it as a ploy meant to minimize the action.

Secondly, they see this as being supportive of abortion just by joining the military.

Again, I don’t see it that way, but many people do.

If you want to fix recruiting and retention, you need to cater to southern conservative white people. If you don’t want to fix it, you continue to demonize them with DEI and enact policies that enrage them.

I believe Lloyd Austin would rather deal with the shortfall than have people he doesn’t like join the military.
 
Old 09-27-2023, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,352,754 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
... But here is the absolute bottom line here. There are many, many conservative young men and women, who see the DOD using taxpayer money to fund abortions and it makes them very, very angry. Enough to make them not want to join? Absolutely.
Our government spends HUGE amounts of tax-payer money on a lot of stupid things.

Every now and then, someone does a line-by-line review of spending from some of our ABC agencies. It is always upsetting to see so much of our money being misspent.

Does spending on abortions truly rise to the top of the pile?

I learned long ago, that I must force myself to turn away, to stop listening to the reviews of government misspending, for my own sanity I must stop.
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