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Old 07-02-2023, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
518 posts, read 301,897 times
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No one is asking for the percentages to match, just to be more representative. There is certainly no push to make the numbers match across all individual career fields. The conversation on pilots stems from the persistent shortage and fighter pilots being the dominant career field of senior Air Force leaders.
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Old 07-03-2023, 05:04 AM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,176,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoski View Post
No one is asking for the percentages to match, just to be more representative. There is certainly no push to make the numbers match across all individual career fields. The conversation on pilots stems from the persistent shortage and fighter pilots being the dominant career field of senior Air Force leaders.
More “representative” is what I don’t agree with. I think General Brown is dead wrong. My hope is that he has been coerced into saying what he said and that he doesn’t actually believe it.

I know race is a big deal for many on here, you included, so since I’m white, you will certainly discard my thoughts on what General Brown said.

But let’s read what a black man, Justice Clarence Thomas, has to say on this issue. He recently wrote:

“It is not even theoretically possible to “help” a certain racial group without hurting other racial groups. It should be obvious that every racial classification helps, in a narrow sense, some races and hurts others.”

So when you write that white pilots won’t be hurt by trying to get more non-white pilots, that’s as wrong as General Brown saying it in the first place.


Of course, I’m sure you don’t like Clarence Thomas because he cheers for the “wrong” team, right? On one hand, you say black people aren’t a monolith, but they vote the same way 90% of the time. That’s the definition of a monolith.

On a side note, Clarence Thomas knows first hand about this issue. His law degree at Yale was looked down upon because of affirmative action. I read where he put a 15 cent sticker on his degree, or something like that.

I have a lot of respect for Clarence Thomas. This country would be so much better off if more black people thought like Clarence Thomas.

But getting back to the military, when General Brown says I need more non-white pilots, what does that mean exactly? It usually means lowering standards, such as women in combat. I don’t know about you, but that’s scary to me, especially if I’m in the back of a C-130 or a C-17.

I’m still not convinced that we need more non- white pilots. We do need more pilots, period.
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Old 07-03-2023, 05:49 AM
 
28,573 posts, read 18,579,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post

But let’s read what a black man, Justice Clarence Thomas, has to say on this issue. He recently wrote:

“It is not even theoretically possible to “help” a certain racial group without hurting other racial groups. It should be obvious that every racial classification helps, in a narrow sense, some races and hurts others.”

So when you write that white pilots won’t be hurt by trying to get more non-white pilots, that’s as wrong as General Brown saying it in the first place.
Thomas is wrong because it's not a zero-sum game. When the pilot shortage is as large as it is, it's a big pie that not enough people are eating. Whatever increased number of blacks go into the cockpit, there are still more than enough empty cockpits for more white pilots.
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Old 07-03-2023, 07:13 AM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,176,012 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Thomas is wrong because it's not a zero-sum game. When the pilot shortage is as large as it is, it's a big pie that not enough people are eating. Whatever increased number of blacks go into the cockpit, there are still more than enough empty cockpits for more white pilots.
You are conflating two issues in order to make General Brown’s statement make more sense.

You I know both know he should be saying he needs more pilots, period.

Not sure why you refuse to acknowledge that? Because you want (not need) more black pilots?

How do we get more black pilots? Relax standards so more black people get into the Academy? Relax standards so more black people are selected for pilot training?

Ok, I guess, but I vote for you to sit in the back of a C-130, not me.
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Old 07-03-2023, 07:26 AM
 
28,573 posts, read 18,579,280 times
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Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
You are conflating two issues in order to make General Brown’s statement make more sense.

You I know both know he should be saying he needs more pilots, period.

Not sure why you refuse to acknowledge that? Because you want (not need) more black pilots?

How do we get more black pilots? Relax standards so more black people get into the Academy? Relax standards so more black people are selected for pilot training?

Ok, I guess, but I vote for you to sit in the back of a C-130, not me.
Yes, I'd like to see more black pilots. I feel no shame about that. Being a pilot is the first step to top leadership in the Air Force, and I'd like to see more black people taking that step.

No, that doesn't require relaxing standards, inasmuch as we aren't doing what we could do to engage more bright young black people.

But inasmuch as you seem to think that getting more black pilots must necessarily mean lowering standards, you're revealing your own prejudice.
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Old 07-03-2023, 08:47 AM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,176,012 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Yes, I'd like to see more black pilots. I feel no shame about that. Being a pilot is the first step to top leadership in the Air Force, and I'd like to see more black people taking that step.

No, that doesn't require relaxing standards, inasmuch as we aren't doing what we could do to engage more bright young black people.

But inasmuch as you seem to think that getting more black pilots must necessarily mean lowering standards, you're revealing your own prejudice.
Why care about what race someone is who leads the USAF? I don’t care who it is as long as they are competent. I think Gen Brown has done some good things, but I still think he is wrong on this issue.

Again, we don’t need more non-white pilots. We need more competent pilots.

Seems to me you are the prejudiced one by wanting pilots who look like you.

Since you seem to not understand, let me clarify it once again. It is not theoretically possible to help one race without hurting others. That doesn’t make us better as an Air Force.
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Old 07-03-2023, 10:12 AM
 
28,573 posts, read 18,579,280 times
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Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
Why care about what race someone is who leads the USAF? I don’t care who it is as long as they are competent. I think Gen Brown has done some good things, but I still think he is wrong on this issue.

Again, we don’t need more non-white pilots. We need more competent pilots.

Seems to me you are the prejudiced one by wanting pilots who look like you.

Since you seem to not understand, let me clarify it once again. It is not theoretically possible to help one race without hurting others. That doesn’t make us better as an Air Force.
Whatever increased number of blacks go into the cockpit, there are still more than enough empty cockpits for more white pilots.
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Old 07-03-2023, 11:42 AM
 
17,473 posts, read 17,314,892 times
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Sadly I believe too many at the star rank and up to secretary of defense are more focused on social programs than defense of the nation and if you’re an officer and don’t tow the line then you won’t have a long career in the military. You’ll be passed over for promotions in one way or another until you either change your view, resign your commission, or hide your beliefs posing as if you actually believe the social agenda. This began during the Clinton administration and is only getting worse now with high ranking officers agreeing to push the agenda.
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Old 07-03-2023, 12:46 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 1,588,941 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Whatever increased number of blacks go into the cockpit, there are still more than enough empty cockpits for more white pilots.
Why should their skin color matter at all?
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Old 07-03-2023, 01:51 PM
 
28,573 posts, read 18,579,280 times
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Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
Why should their skin color matter at all?
Because it will matter at least until we Boomers are dead.
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