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Old 10-06-2023, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,425 posts, read 13,660,350 times
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In this talk, one must remember the Key West Agreement (and other such) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_West_Agreement . For example, under it, the Army cannot have armed fixed wing aircraft, that's an Air Force function. The Army cannot do Close Air Support.......that way.......but the Key West Agreement said nothing about helicopters.


Another element in those agreements was that the Army would not be running flight schools for young officers (nutshell). Well, we know how they got around that one.....don't we?
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Old 10-06-2023, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I think you'll find that aviators in WWI tended to be from the upper social classes.

The RAF had more of a tradition of enlisted pilots than did the USAAF, and again I'd bet you'll find that the flying cohort of all the US air arms at the beginning of WWII again came, at least at first, from the upper social classes and the Academies.

Yeager may be a special case but he wasn't originally slated to fly, he was originally a mechanic and only got to flight school when the standards were loosened.

The US Army currently trains high school graduates to fly helicopters (those guys become Warrants) but it really prefers the candidates have a couple years of at least community college.
I think what made General Yeager a special case was the post war USAF when he didn't need the formal education to be promoted above Lieutenant as is the case today. The "flying sergeants" being not much different from the aviation cadets except they were already on active duty and not reservist undergoing training while waiting for their commission/draft call up.. That by the time his class graduated congress had enacted the flight officer law saw him obtain first his warrant on his way to a WWII Captain in the USAAF before being allowed to continue as a Lieutenant in the post war USAF.

The last Flying Sergeant being Lt Col George Holmes a WWI Navy veteran who eventually rose to his rank in the USAAF WWII but resigned his commission to fly as a USAF Master Sergeant in the post war era.
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Old 10-06-2023, 08:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post

I do wonder why they don't offer drone pilot jobs to kids who play a lot of video games, seems like a perfect fit. I have read on here that when "real" pilots get transferred to "flying" drones, they don't much like it. A fat kid who would be 4F otherwise might very well do great as a drone pilot. You could have an officer oversee a half dozen of them or so, to answer "shoot or don't shoot" questions and help with emergencies.

I don't go along with the "fat kid who would be 4F otherwise" because fitness matters in a number of ways, but otherwise, yeah.
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Old 10-07-2023, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
510 posts, read 298,845 times
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The Air Force brought back enlisted pilots for RQ-4s back in 2015. Unfortunately the program was brought to an end as it was just really ramping up as the Air Force is retiring the RQ-4s and transitioning those enlisted pilots into either office careers or other enlisted AFSCs, and their is no plan to utilize the program going forward.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...wk-in-theater/
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Old 10-07-2023, 08:07 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I think what made General Yeager a special case was the post war USAF when he didn't need the formal education to be promoted above Lieutenant as is the case today. The "flying sergeants" being not much different from the aviation cadets except they were already on active duty and not reservist undergoing training while waiting for their commission/draft call up.. That by the time his class graduated congress had enacted the flight officer law saw him obtain first his warrant on his way to a WWII Captain in the USAAF before being allowed to continue as a Lieutenant in the post war USAF.

The last Flying Sergeant being Lt Col George Holmes a WWI Navy veteran who eventually rose to his rank in the USAAF WWII but resigned his commission to fly as a USAF Master Sergeant in the post war era.
One other thing that hasn't been mentioned, using WWII as the base. High school graduates were also somewhat rare then at 23% of the entire male population in 1940.

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/h...r%20amendments.

Those guys would have been slated for technical enlisted/OCS slots.
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Old 10-07-2023, 08:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
Military pilots are hardly "button pushers". That reflects a complete lack of knowledge about military flying.
it is ok:>)
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Old 10-07-2023, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
I’ll never forget the time when we were flying out of Osan on a US Army C-12, going to Gwang Ju Air Base. I had no idea that the pilots weren’t going to be regular commissioned officers. I guess they were Warrant Officers? Also, so bizarre that they were flying in ACUs and didn’t have flight suits on. At first, I thought they were ground crew just waiting for the pilots to board.

Anyway, they did a great job flying the plane, then came back and got us later in the day after we gave our briefings.

Very professional, so based on that experience, I think enlisted and WOs could absolutely do the job if needed.
Warrant Officers make up around 80% of US Army aviators
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Old 10-07-2023, 08:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Warrant Officers make up around 80% of US Army aviators
The Air Force leadership won't admit it, but WOs would work for drone pilots as well. Right now, piloting a drone isn't a whole-career occupation for an officer. It could be a whole-career occupation for a WO.
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Old 10-07-2023, 08:47 PM
 
15,086 posts, read 7,133,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The Air Force leadership won't admit it, but WOs would work for drone pilots as well. Right now, piloting a drone isn't a whole-career occupation for an officer. It could be a whole-career occupation for a WO.
Warrant officers would work, but the USAF doesn't want to have any WO's, since they got rid of them decades ago.
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Old 10-07-2023, 09:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
Warrant officers would work, but the USAF doesn't want to have any WO's, since they got rid of them decades ago.
Yes, and "we got rid of them decades ago" is the only reason I've ever heard over the course of the last 50 years...which is no reason not to bring them back now that a perfect use for them has come up since then.

It would actually be a plus for the future of the officer corps. The senior leadership of the Air Force will always come from the officer corps, and it makes perfect sense for those people to also come from the ranks of actual aviators. No officer with hopes for senior leadership wants to be a drone pilot in competition with "real" pilots. They can fluff up drone pilots as much as they want, but nobody believes a promotion board doesn't make an unspoken distinction.

Giving that job to WOs takes that entire troublesome AFSC out of the equation for the officer corps. The pilots in the competition for senior leadership will be those who are true aviators.
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