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Old 10-08-2023, 07:20 AM
 
Location: U.S.
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Not yet mentioned but contractors flew drones in Afghanistan. They were wearing shorts until they were forced to wear pants and not having to worry about officer / enlisted issues.

Remember with drones, it’s not dogfighting. Meaning “game controller experience” and quick reflexes are not the primary skill sets.
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Old 10-08-2023, 08:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Yes, and "we got rid of them decades ago" is the only reason I've ever heard over the course of the last 50 years...which is no reason not to bring them back now that a perfect use for them has come up since then.

It would actually be a plus for the future of the officer corps. The senior leadership of the Air Force will always come from the officer corps, and it makes perfect sense for those people to also come from the ranks of actual aviators. No officer with hopes for senior leadership wants to be a drone pilot in competition with "real" pilots. They can fluff up drone pilots as much as they want, but nobody believes a promotion board doesn't make an unspoken distinction.

Giving that job to WOs takes that entire troublesome AFSC out of the equation for the officer corps. The pilots in the competition for senior leadership will be those who are true aviators.
Some background on why the AF dropped Warrant Officers in 1959, and waited 20+ years for the last one to retire https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/1191between/

The basic premise is "we don't need them"
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Old 10-08-2023, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
Not yet mentioned but contractors flew drones in Afghanistan. They were wearing shorts until they were forced to wear pants and not having to worry about officer / enlisted issues.

Remember with drones, it’s not dogfighting. Meaning “game controller experience” and quick reflexes are not the primary skill sets.
Which begs the question did the contractors bring a particular skill set or were they just willing to take the risk, if they weren't the ones in a trailer in Nevada, while the US could report a lower troop strength to its people?
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Old 10-08-2023, 12:40 PM
 
Location: U.S.
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Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Which begs the question did the contractors bring a particular skill set or were they just willing to take the risk, if they weren't the ones in a trailer in Nevada, while the US could report a lower troop strength to its people?
Mixed yes and no.

Went over, didn’t sit in desert trailers.

Didn’t bring skills. We’re trained. Shorter type rotations.

No idea on troop strength numbers or angles on that reference.
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Old 10-08-2023, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Elysium
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Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
Some background on why the AF dropped Warrant Officers in 1959, and waited 20+ years for the last one to retire https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/1191between/

The basic premise is "we don't need them"
Interesting particularly NCO USAF Physician's Assistants being upset that Army PA's are warrant officers.

Of course any look at M.A.S.H. would lead you to think that if it wasn't for tradition Captains Hawkeye Pierce and Trapper John, and RN's too, if they will be drafted in the future, should have a warrant instead of a commission. They would still outrank Radar.
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Old 10-08-2023, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Interesting particularly NCO USAF Physician's Assistants being upset that Army PA's are warrant officers.

Of course any look at M.A.S.H. would lead you to think that if it wasn't for tradition Captains Hawkeye Pierce and Trapper John, and RN's too, if they will be drafted in the future, should have a warrant instead of a commission. They would still outrank Radar.
Well, that is another thing. Warrants in one service are not necessarily like warrants in another. A USN warrant is a prior enlisted with many years of service, for example.


So with all this talk about warrants.....keep that in mind, too.
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Old 10-08-2023, 06:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
Some background on why the AF dropped Warrant Officers in 1959, and waited 20+ years for the last one to retire https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/1191between/

The basic premise is "we don't need them"
I know about all that, but I'd argue that yesterdays needs are not today's needs, and certainly not tomorrow's. I already said that.

Remanding an officer to drone duty is detrimental to that officer's career. There is no good reason why an enlisted person can't do it, if the Air Force is dead set against bringing back the WO.

The Air Force has enlisted Physician Assistants...they have had enlisted drone operators.
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Old 10-08-2023, 06:26 PM
 
15,086 posts, read 7,133,536 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I know about all that, but I'd argue that yesterdays needs are not today's needs, and certainly not tomorrow's. I already said that.

Remanding an officer to drone duty is detrimental to that officer's career. There is no good reason why an enlisted person can't do it, if the Air Force is dead set against bringing back the WO.

The Air Force has enlisted Physician Assistants...they have had enlisted drone operators.
I am going to guess that my cousin's husband, who was an Army PA, is very glad he wasn't in the AF. He retired after 22 years of service as a Captain, having started as an E-1.
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Old 10-08-2023, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
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Another thing to keep in mind is just how much the US has invested in fighting the air war. From carrier battle groups to AA missiles to AWACS and beyond, it is not just the individual aircraft. Further, at least in the Cold War, the standards were for near perfection. In pilot school, so they say, if you weren't making 98%, you were falling behind and were cut, transferred to another branch of the service to finish your commitment.

With such emphasis on the air world, is it any wonder why they want only the best and the brightest?
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