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Old 11-19-2023, 04:38 PM
 
1,063 posts, read 869,658 times
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the "my body my choice" line has worked for me
in a few medical and other discussions/decisions.
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Old 11-19-2023, 05:54 PM
 
5,891 posts, read 3,160,730 times
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The real problem here is that the military has become politicized. In order to win political points, the Biden administration decided to make this unnecessary vaccine mandatory.

Back in the day, when there was actual leadership in the DOD, they would push back against actions like these. It would be done behind closed doors, but it would be done, and that would be the end of it, no Covid vaccines.

But since we now have generals who are de facto political appointees, they say nothing. These generals now exist solely to push a political agenda.
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Old 11-20-2023, 05:42 AM
 
689 posts, read 366,158 times
Reputation: 1709
I retired decades ago but I admit they have/had more balls than me. I would have gotten the shots assuming the government had my back.
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Old 11-20-2023, 06:21 AM
 
5,891 posts, read 3,160,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H8t3rs View Post
I retired decades ago but I admit they have/had more balls than me. I would have gotten the shots assuming the government had my back.
I don’t think the troops of today have any more courage than you used to have. The difference is that you, and I, used to implicitly trust the leadership, we felt that they had our best interests in mind.

Now whether they really did, or we were all just so incredibly naive, is beside the point.

The reality of today is that people no longer trust institutions, they believe they have been corrupted.

For example, Pfizer made $100 billion dollars pushing the Covid vaccine. Pfizer lobbies hard on both sides of the political aisle, and we all know that our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for.

We also see General Brown and General Milley make political statements in ways that previous Generals never did.

So this gives the troops pause. Do these Generals really care about us, the rank and file? Or are they fighting for their jobs and forced to push Pfizer’s narrative?

Even if General Milley pushed back behind closed doors and told the White House, yea, we aren’t forcing our troops to get the vaccine, I think we all know what would happen.

The White House would relieve him of duty and blame him for Afghanistan, even though he advised Biden not to pull out of Bagram.

Of course, Milley is no innocent. He was specifically picked for his duty because he would be willing to go along with whatever Permanent Washington wants. True, he was a Trump appointee, but Trump didn’t understand this dynamic fully. He does now, and that’s why the Democrats think he is even more dangerous and uncontrollable now than he was before.

Anyway, the type of General who would be willing to put his career on the line to do what is right does not exist anymore. The Pentagon forced them out long ago. By forcing out, what I mean is they got passed over for promotion and then they just retired.

So to sum up, you did not lack the courage, you just had enough trust in leadership. We all did.
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Old 11-20-2023, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Sandwich
375 posts, read 390,809 times
Reputation: 1189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
I don’t think the troops of today have any more courage than you used to have. The difference is that you, and I, used to implicitly trust the leadership, we felt that they had our best interests in mind.

Now whether they really did, or we were all just so incredibly naive, is beside the point.

The reality of today is that people no longer trust institutions, they believe they have been corrupted.

For example, Pfizer made $100 billion dollars pushing the Covid vaccine. Pfizer lobbies hard on both sides of the political aisle, and we all know that our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, are bought and paid for.

We also see General Brown and General Milley make political statements in ways that previous Generals never did.

So this gives the troops pause. Do these Generals really care about us, the rank and file? Or are they fighting for their jobs and forced to push Pfizer’s narrative?

Even if General Milley pushed back behind closed doors and told the White House, yea, we aren’t forcing our troops to get the vaccine, I think we all know what would happen.

The White House would relieve him of duty and blame him for Afghanistan, even though he advised Biden not to pull out of Bagram.

Of course, Milley is no innocent. He was specifically picked for his duty because he would be willing to go along with whatever Permanent Washington wants. True, he was a Trump appointee, but Trump didn’t understand this dynamic fully. He does now, and that’s why the Democrats think he is even more dangerous and uncontrollable now than he was before.

Anyway, the type of General who would be willing to put his career on the line to do what is right does not exist anymore. The Pentagon forced them out long ago. By forcing out, what I mean is they got passed over for promotion and then they just retired.

So to sum up, you did not lack the courage, you just had enough trust in leadership. We all did.

Well stated and so true !!!
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Old 11-20-2023, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Sandy Eggo's North County
10,134 posts, read 6,558,646 times
Reputation: 16451
So, if the people that left, were called back to finish their commitment, and didn't, would they be AWOL?

Seems to me that their contract was "paused" timewise when they deserted. Now, the clock is ticking, again.
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Old 11-20-2023, 01:48 PM
 
2,911 posts, read 2,011,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORTY FLATZ View Post
So, if the people that left, were called back to finish their commitment, and didn't, would they be AWOL?

Seems to me that their contract was "paused" timewise when they deserted. Now, the clock is ticking, again.
No, cause I’m pretty sure they got some type of “discharge”.
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Old 11-20-2023, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,214 posts, read 60,926,856 times
Reputation: 30081
I was on Active Duty when the Anthrax vaccines were a big deal. People were refusing the shot and getting busted for refusing it. then a few years later we saw news articles that each of those servicemembers won in court and were re-instated with bonus money and promotions.
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Old 11-20-2023, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,548 posts, read 2,191,949 times
Reputation: 3888
When I was in USAF Basic Training in 1978 we got a whole battery of vaccinations (with those pneumatic guns). Nobody complained at all - it was just another requirement to check off.
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Old 11-20-2023, 07:00 PM
 
Location: U.S.
9,512 posts, read 8,970,582 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
When I was in USAF Basic Training in 1978 we got a whole battery of vaccinations (with those pneumatic guns). Nobody complained at all - it was just another requirement to check off.
Times have changed. Blind faith in Big DOD is not as rampant and old timers will say those questioning are somehow less patriotic.

Basically too many scandals in big government to blindly trust all things government
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