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Old 11-26-2023, 08:26 AM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
5,679 posts, read 4,582,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Just more BS. Guy was active duty. There is no "armory" to turn his gear into.

I asked a guy who was in Afghanistan how easy it was do a field loss on CIF items. Simply a stroke of the pen.

As someone who led Soldiers, I can guarantee you this dude is full of crap making a political statement that the usual suspects on this thread eat up.
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Old 11-26-2023, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,882 posts, read 13,100,832 times
Reputation: 19107
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
Just more BS. Guy was active duty. There is no "armory" to turn his gear into.

I asked a guy who was in Afghanistan how easy it was do a field loss on CIF items. Simply a stroke of the pen.

As someone who led Soldiers, I can guarantee you this dude is full of crap making a political statement that the usual suspects on this thread eat up.
I was also slightly dubious as the military in most countries doesn't want a lot of second hand personal kit back and most personal kit issued to recruits is fresh out of the packaging. The exceptions being weapons and technical equipment which you don't keep in the first place.
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Old 11-26-2023, 01:30 PM
 
5,895 posts, read 3,163,779 times
Reputation: 10615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
Just more BS. Guy was active duty. There is no "armory" to turn his gear into.

I asked a guy who was in Afghanistan how easy it was do a field loss on CIF items. Simply a stroke of the pen.

As someone who led Soldiers, I can guarantee you this dude is full of crap making a political statement that the usual suspects on this thread eat up.
Again, I don’t know if this particular guy is telling the truth, or just trying to make a political statement. So I’m not taking his word, he might be lying.

But look at it from a general perspective:

Fact 1: Gear is absolutely left behind from time to time due allowable cabin load (ACL) limitations of the aircraft. It can happen on C130’s, C17’s, or even civilian contracted “rotators”. Most of the time, it is sent later, sort of like how the airlines do it when your bag didn’t make it in time. Due to the chaotic situation in Afghanistan at the end, the gear left behind had no chance of being put on a later mission.

Fact 2: Members absolutely get charged for missing items that were signed out to them from time to time, depends on the situation. If all they had to do was a “pen stroke”, why turn any gear in at all? Just say you lost it, be done with it, and keep it.

I do agree that I am confused by the armory remark. The armory is not where this type of gear goes.

But you negatively reacted to this guy because you don’t like his politics? Because he is taking shots at how the Afghanistan surrender went off the rails?
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Old 11-27-2023, 09:29 AM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
5,679 posts, read 4,582,930 times
Reputation: 5077
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
Again, I don’t know if this particular guy is telling the truth, or just trying to make a political statement. So I’m not taking his word, he might be lying.

But look at it from a general perspective:

Fact 1: Gear is absolutely left behind from time to time due allowable cabin load (ACL) limitations of the aircraft. It can happen on C130’s, C17’s, or even civilian contracted “rotators”. Most of the time, it is sent later, sort of like how the airlines do it when your bag didn’t make it in time. Due to the chaotic situation in Afghanistan at the end, the gear left behind had no chance of being put on a later mission.

Fact 2: Members absolutely get charged for missing items that were signed out to them from time to time, depends on the situation. If all they had to do was a “pen stroke”, why turn any gear in at all? Just say you lost it, be done with it, and keep it.

I do agree that I am confused by the armory remark. The armory is not where this type of gear goes.

But you negatively reacted to this guy because you don’t like his politics? Because he is taking shots at how the Afghanistan surrender went off the rails?
Well, since I was actually in the Army, and you weren't, I'd suggest that my first hand experience was different from yours, and , perhaps more pertinent to the situation.

In garrison, items can be written off due to accidents, injuries, or other unforeseen circumstances. Happens every single day. I was in an accident that ended with my gear being cut off me by emergency personnel. All written off. I got a voucher for military clothing replacement.

In a combat environment, items are written off without a moment of thought. Soldier writes a statement of how the item(s) were lost, supply processes it, and the CO signs off. Literally that simple.

Why does the Soldier feel the need to make a political comment at all? I can guess. Because he set up a Go Fund Me somewhere and hope to get a reaction from whichever group was triggered. In the case of this thread, it was easily taken as red meat to damn the current POTUS.
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Old 11-27-2023, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
5,033 posts, read 6,307,955 times
Reputation: 7189
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
Well, since I was actually in the Army, and you weren't, I'd suggest that my first hand experience was different from yours, and , perhaps more pertinent to the situation.

In garrison, items can be written off due to accidents, injuries, or other unforeseen circumstances. Happens every single day. I was in an accident that ended with my gear being cut off me by emergency personnel. All written off. I got a voucher for military clothing replacement.

In a combat environment, items are written off without a moment of thought. Soldier writes a statement of how the item(s) were lost, supply processes it, and the CO signs off. Literally that simple.

Why does the Soldier feel the need to make a political comment at all? I can guess. Because he set up a Go Fund Me somewhere and hope to get a reaction from whichever group was triggered. In the case of this thread, it was easily taken as red meat to damn the current POTUS.
I have a dumb question-as someone else who served in the Army and has paid for my fair share of TA-50 I lost.

This just happened, right? And the withdrawal from Afghanistan was in 2021-about 2 years ago?

How did this guy make it for 2 years without his gear? Did his chain of command just, not notice or something? Did he not go to the field at all? Did he not have inspections? Did a member of the 82d airplane gang show for a jump without a helmet and not immediately get noticed? I see your EIB, bro, 11Bs at your rank in the 82d jump and go to the field.

Something isn't passing the sniff test here.
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Old 11-28-2023, 03:54 AM
 
5,895 posts, read 3,163,779 times
Reputation: 10615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
Well, since I was actually in the Army, and you weren't, I'd suggest that my first hand experience was different from yours, and , perhaps more pertinent to the situation.

In garrison, items can be written off due to accidents, injuries, or other unforeseen circumstances. Happens every single day. I was in an accident that ended with my gear being cut off me by emergency personnel. All written off. I got a voucher for military clothing replacement.

In a combat environment, items are written off without a moment of thought. Soldier writes a statement of how the item(s) were lost, supply processes it, and the CO signs off. Literally that simple.

Why does the Soldier feel the need to make a political comment at all? I can guess. Because he set up a Go Fund Me somewhere and hope to get a reaction from whichever group was triggered. In the case of this thread, it was easily taken as red meat to damn the current POTUS.
It’s hard for me to believe you can just write off everything, because if that was the case, who is going to waste time turning anything in at all? I listen to US Army active duty personnel who make TikToks from time to time, just like this guy, and there are a few on there who talk about how difficult the turn-in process is, and the fact that they got charged for certain missing items.

I guess they are all lying too?
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Old 11-28-2023, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
6,529 posts, read 6,979,689 times
Reputation: 9241
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
It’s hard for me to believe you can just write off everything, because if that was the case, who is going to waste time turning anything in at all? I listen to US Army active duty personnel who make TikToks from time to time, just like this guy, and there are a few on there who talk about how difficult the turn-in process is, and the fact that they got charged for certain missing items.

I guess they are all lying too?
I can tell you that a commander can write it off. It is just a stroke of the pen and I have seen it many times. I worked at JFHQ in the national guard in the G4 office. I am almost certain this story has something not quite right to it. This figure $3,561 while very specific has no details to it in the SP4's rant. The article points to figures $500 to $1000 which would be possibly likely if the soldier took all of his field gear home for good.

Also a soldier almost never gets charged for the cost of replacement because supply can write off wear and tear to lower the price a soldier pays for an item lost or not turned in.
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Old 11-28-2023, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
5,033 posts, read 6,307,955 times
Reputation: 7189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
It’s hard for me to believe you can just write off everything, because if that was the case, who is going to waste time turning anything in at all? I listen to US Army active duty personnel who make TikToks from time to time, just like this guy, and there are a few on there who talk about how difficult the turn-in process is, and the fact that they got charged for certain missing items.

I guess they are all lying too?
A Soldier *can* write off literally every piece of gear, also known as TA-50, if they legitimately lost it or it was damaged-through no negligence of their own. If they lost it because they acted stupid, that's not a case of no negligence, and most likely wouldn't be dumb enough to even ask for a write-off. They'd just offer to pay for it.

Commanders have procedures they must follow to account for missing stuff. A common one is a cash collection voucher (where a Soldier says, yep, I was dumb, I lost it, and I'll pay). Another common one is producing a document attesting to what happened. That document is then approved by a disinterested party and used to account for the missing property.

If it's a simple case, no negligence suspected, that is indeed a memo. Previous posters are correct-for a large or complex field problem, or a deployment, those things are incredibly common.

If it's something weird you might go to a financial liability investigation (previously known as a report of survey).

If anybody in the process suspects shenanigans, commanders have a responsibility to investigate and initiate a deeper look into it. I estimate 99% of commanders and 99.99% of First Sergeants I have known take their responsibilities very seriously.

If a Soldier did something stupid to lose or damage the gear, they can and will face repercussions-typically corrective training but it can get more severe than that. One of the more creative trainings I saw was a Soldier had to lay out his gear every day for a week for his squad leader to check. Take the Soldier an hour to lay out, takes the squad leader 5-10 minutes to check, and it related to the misbehavior.

The pertinent regulations are AR 735-5 (Property Accountability Policies), AR 710-2 (Supply Policy Below the National Level), and DA Pam 710-2-1 (Using Unit Supply System (Manual Procedures)).


Tik Toks may not be perhaps the best, most neutral source of information on how these things work. The person producing it has an interest in appearing completely blameless.
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Old 11-28-2023, 07:22 AM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
5,679 posts, read 4,582,930 times
Reputation: 5077
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
It’s hard for me to believe you can just write off everything, because if that was the case, who is going to waste time turning anything in at all? I listen to US Army active duty personnel who make TikToks from time to time, just like this guy, and there are a few on there who talk about how difficult the turn-in process is, and the fact that they got charged for certain missing items.

I guess they are all lying too?
I'm not sure if you're just trying to belabor this or you just don't get it.

Let's say I'm a Soldier in Afghanistan. I'm told to leave right now and don't worry about any of your stuff. Jump on the bird and head home. (As noted earlier, this guy somehow spent two more years at Fort Liberty without needing any of his TA-50?) Since the higher command told you to leave your stuff behind, they write it off.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The Soldier claims this happened in an active combat zone. In a combat zone, writing stuff off is ridiculously easy. As it should be.

Where your big mistake keeps happening is confusing this with garrison field training. If this Soldier is in the woods at Fort Liberty training and loses his stuff, he's on the hook for it. Also, as it should be.

Finally, the Army has a facility called the Central Issue Facility. This is the place that has all of your field gear and issues it when you arrive at a duty station and accepts it back when you PCS or ETS. This place is a nightmare to clear on most forts. Take note that this is, in no way, shape, or form similar to a Soldier being told to abandon his gear in Afghanistan.
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Old 11-28-2023, 08:05 AM
 
5,895 posts, read 3,163,779 times
Reputation: 10615
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
I'm not sure if you're just trying to belabor this or you just don't get it.

Let's say I'm a Soldier in Afghanistan. I'm told to leave right now and don't worry about any of your stuff. Jump on the bird and head home. (As noted earlier, this guy somehow spent two more years at Fort Liberty without needing any of his TA-50?) Since the higher command told you to leave your stuff behind, they write it off.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The Soldier claims this happened in an active combat zone. In a combat zone, writing stuff off is ridiculously easy. As it should be.

Where your big mistake keeps happening is confusing this with garrison field training. If this Soldier is in the woods at Fort Liberty training and loses his stuff, he's on the hook for it. Also, as it should be.

Finally, the Army has a facility called the Central Issue Facility. This is the place that has all of your field gear and issues it when you arrive at a duty station and accepts it back when you PCS or ETS. This place is a nightmare to clear on most forts. Take note that this is, in no way, shape, or form similar to a Soldier being told to abandon his gear in Afghanistan.
So if you “lose” your stuff in training you pay for it, but if you “lose” your stuff on a deployment, you don’t pay for it? That doesn’t seem like a good system to me. There must be tens of thousands of soldiers “losing” stuff worth millions of dollars.

I wasn’t in the Army, as you mentioned, so I don’t know. I’m just stating that as an outside onlooker, I am hearing conflicting stories on if you pay for it or not. Maybe that’s the problem? Some end up paying for it, while others get to write it off? Toxic leaders just might do that. If a guy is a screwup and not well liked, as the guy in the video may have been, maybe leadership did refuse to write his gear off? Make him pay for all that oxygen he stole all those years?

But getting back to having your bags taken off the plane because it’s too heavy. AMC isn’t going to give you an MFR when they do that. If you are the only guy in your unit redeploying home, how can you definitively prove that that even happened? I know how AMC operates, and the chances of someone in the Army following up and calling the correct office and getting a definitive answer as to what happened is pretty small. Those Reach missions that flew out of Kabul at the end could’ve had an aircrew from anywhere. You’d probably have to find that particular load master and or aircraft commander and hope he remembered that mission. The best answer you would get, if you even found the guy, is that it’s possible it happened, but they wouldn’t know who’s bags they were.

If you redeployed as a unit and had numerous people who were in the same boat corroborate your story, that seems easier.
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