U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-29-2009, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
403 posts, read 1,015,524 times
Reputation: 261

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
The Israeli Air Force routinely engaged (and swatted out of the sky) Syrian Air Force MiGs over Lebanon throughout the 1980s, 90s and early 2000s.
Link please
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-29-2009, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
403 posts, read 1,015,524 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedaddicted View Post
When was the last time the US military engaged a true Air to Air threat ? It doenst happen anymore. Dog fighting is a thing of the past for the most part. We dont need 3000 F-15's anymore because that threat is no longer there. Now putting bombs on a ground target, that is very real and they are VERY good at it.

Maybe you cant confirm the capabilities of thier SOF, but some others can.

I will use your logic to say that I guess our nuke's in the navy or nuke officers in the Air Fore are not that good because they have never had to use thier training....only in drills. I think not.

I would consider Hezbollah, Hamas, and the PLO no different than what the US is dealing with in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
When was the last time we faced an enemy that posed a true air to air threat? Iraq? Panama? Vietnam? We've adopted a policy of air supremacy in part because no enemy in recent history has posed a serious air threat to us. That allows our pilots to spend more time putting bombs on the ground.

Our nuke guys are the best at what they do but let's be real when is the last time we've had an actual nuclear threat? No one knows what will happen until the bullets and missiles start flying.


We can go back and forth about this but nothing that's been said has refuted my point that they can't be considered to have the strongest military when THEY HAVEN'T FOUGHT A STANDING ARMY IN ALMOST 40YEARS. That was the subject of the whole thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,115,516 times
Reputation: 6949
World Tribune.com -- Israel downed 2 Syrian MiGs last September over sea

Quote:
[SIZE=-1]Diplomatic sources said Israel Air Force F-16 multi-role fighters intercepted and downed two Syrian MiG-29 fighter-jets in 2001. The sources said the dogfight took place in September 2001 over the eastern Mediterranean Sea.[/SIZE]
NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Israel Air Force

Quote:
June 7, 1981: The destruction of the Iraqi Osiraq nuclear reactor. Eight IAF F-16 fighters flew to Iraq and bombed the nuclear facilties of Osiraq. Among the pilots that took part in the attack was the late Ilan Ramon, Israel's first astronaut.
Quote:
June 8, 1982: The destruction of the entire Soviet-Syrian air-defence system in Lebanon within few hours without a single warplane lost; Syria with the U.S.S.R built up an overlapping network of surface-to-air missiles, and the density of SAM site locations was unmatched anywhere in the world including the U.S.S.R. itself. Also the IAF achieved in dogfights a total of 80 Syrian planes shoot-downs, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2009, 07:44 AM
 
2,221 posts, read 3,113,236 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauticadon View Post
When was the last time we faced an enemy that posed a true air to air threat? Iraq? Panama? Vietnam? We've adopted a policy of air supremacy in part because no enemy in recent history has posed a serious air threat to us. That allows our pilots to spend more time putting bombs on the ground.

Our nuke guys are the best at what they do but let's be real when is the last time we've had an actual nuclear threat? No one knows what will happen until the bullets and missiles start flying.


We can go back and forth about this but nothing that's been said has refuted my point that they can't be considered to have the strongest military when THEY HAVEN'T FOUGHT A STANDING ARMY IN ALMOST 40YEARS. That was the subject of the whole thread.
Well I look at your example and I notice that your double standard is so obvious.

1 You knock the fact that the army hasnt fought anyone on ALMOST 40 years, but Vietnam Started in 1959 and ended in 1975....thats almost 40 years ago.

2. You call our NUKES the best but they have never been testd, the very same thing you knock the Isrealis for... ? So if using your logic, are NUKES are the best at sitting around waiting and training? Um, no I highly doubt that to be the case.

3. I have never stated that they are the BEST in the world, but they are an extremley capable force.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,547,847 times
Reputation: 24548
The Afghani non army seems to be doing quite well these days.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2009, 10:04 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,455 posts, read 21,469,319 times
Reputation: 8410
You can argue till your final days about who has the "best" army but it means little. Arguably the Germans had one of the strongest armies in the days before WWII, but they still lost (luckily). The U.S. was quite strong but we didn't win in Vietnam, nor did the Soviets win in Afghanistan. Going back in history, bad weather lead to the demise of the Spanish Armada. The best of armies can still lose, and weak militia and guerilla groups can win against said armies. War is always a toss of the coin as to who wins.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,115,516 times
Reputation: 6949
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
You can argue till your final days about who has the "best" army but it means little. Arguably the Germans had one of the strongest armies in the days before WWII, but they still lost (luckily). The U.S. was quite strong but we didn't win in Vietnam, nor did the Soviets win in Afghanistan. Going back in history, bad weather lead to the demise of the Spanish Armada. The best of armies can still lose, and weak militia and guerilla groups can win against said armies. War is always a toss of the coin as to who wins.
The North Vietnamese won only due to raw numbers wasted in pointless human wave assaults against first the French and later the US/South Vietnamese/Australian/New Zealand/Thai/Laotian/South Korean/Filipino forces.

The classic Soviet style bodies vs bullets tactic. Even as late as 1972 the South Vietnamese were holding firm, the South Vietnamese proved this at An Loc where a single division of South Vietnamese and a few US Army Special Forces advisors virtually annihilated 3 entire North Vietnamese divisions. The entire international press was fighting eachother to get to take pictures of the burned out North Vietnamese tanks and bodies all over.

Tet '68 (41st anniversary is tomorrow night) was another prime example. A total waste of manpower, a entire generation was wasted by their leaders incompetence and false belief that we were spineless cowards like the French.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2009, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,547,847 times
Reputation: 24548
The tactics are irrelevant so long as the war is won. I strongly object, to the point of insult, you calling the French Army or Foreign Legion, cowards. They were not. They, like us, may have been in the wrong war and poorly led, but they were not cowards. I suggest you go into a soldier's bar in any French city and say that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2009, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
58 posts, read 123,728 times
Reputation: 27
I think the british RAF has better stats when it comes to dog fighting etc than the US Airforce, look at the falklands for example...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2009, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 12,817,106 times
Reputation: 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
USA is still #1 by far, though the most important reasons why are still classified.
Actually before the gulf war Israel was considered the best. I think we took the lead after that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top