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Old 03-11-2009, 10:41 PM
 
957 posts, read 833,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
And (civilian) job positions have to be held for you to return to while you're serving if called up (obviously different if self-employed).
There are legal ways around that. Few jobs are going to be held for 10 or 20 years, and even if they were, the returning soldier can be laid off a month later.
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 12,609,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanboy395 View Post
I'm 20 too and i'm considering joining the air force myself after college. I would recommend joining the military with a degree. The benefits are great but the E-1 pay (in my opinion) is a disgrace. My thing is to get the degree so i could go in as an officer or at least start in e-4. If you have a lot of work experience i think you might do better than an E-1.

As for which branch to join, i have uncles and a grandfather who have joined the marines and army and both parents in the air force. My parents didnt go into hardcore combat (to the best of my knowledge) while my uncles went into WWII, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq on the front lines. I'd take that into serious consideration.
Don't qoute me but I think E-3 is the highest that you can go in at if you go enlisted.If you go to OTS you start at the bottom.
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 12,609,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
Sorry, wrong. When you join the military you sign a contract to be active (or guard/reserves) and then inactive reserves for a specified period of time. There is something either you or your buddies aren't telling us about their sitution.

And (civilian) job positions have to be held for you to return to while you're serving if called up (obviously different if self-employed).
Joey's right.I think it's 2 or 4 years after your regular enlistment is up where you are subject to recall.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:01 PM
 
957 posts, read 833,492 times
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Here is the relevant section, C.9.c from the enlistment document that all US enlistees sign:

Quote:
In the event of war, my enlistment in the Armed Forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends, unless my enlistment is ended sooner by the President of the United States.
There's no misinterpreting that. We are in a war with no end in sight. If you sign up today, you're potentially signing up for a lifetime.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:43 PM
 
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1 - Technically we are not in a war, ie no formal declaration of war has been made. And that is one significant technicality if ever there was one.

2 - Note it says " my enlistment in the Armed Forces CONTINUES..." ....ie this assumes you are still within that active or inactive reserve status. After that's up, you're done. No "lifetime" bit.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:02 AM
 
957 posts, read 833,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
1 - Technically we are not in a war, ie no formal declaration of war has been made. And that is one significant technicality if ever there was one.
This doesn't matter. It's wartime whether "technically" or not:

Quote:
From [google for it] (boldface is mine):

As you may know, "Stop Loss" -- part of the "back-door draft" -- continues to hold service men and women in the military beyond their enlistment dates. This Pentagon policy was challenged in 2005 by a group of soldiers who were being held in the military beyond the end-dates of their military contracts. A very unfortunate ruling came out of a three-judge panel in the Federal 9th Circuit Court in Washington State in April, 2005. This ruling basically said that the military contract can not be viewed in the same was as an employment contract. An employment contract binds both sides to the agreement. In a military contract, the ruling said that service men and women have to live up to everything they sign on to in that contract, but the military (the government) is not bound by that contract in a number of significant ways. The ruling said that the government and the military has larger issues to be concerned with, such as national security, and therefore can make decisions to hold service men and women in the service indefinitely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
2 - Note it says " my enlistment in the Armed Forces CONTINUES..." ....ie this assumes you are still within that active or inactive reserve status. After that's up, you're done. No "lifetime" bit.
Probably true. I haven't heard of anyone who wasn't able to quit after they completed their 8 years and the end date was not during wartime (e.g. end date before 2003). However, soldiers may not be so safe after that ruling noted above. And if there is any doubt about that, section C.9.b of the enlistee's contract says (boldface/caps is in the document):

Quote:
Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may change without notice to me. Such changes may affect my status, pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/reenlistment document.
Wow! This means that the contract can become almost anything the gov't wants it to become. If the President chooses to lower pay by half and extend commitments to 30 years even outside of wartime (and even for those with 7.9 years of service), that can certainly happen. The enlistee is agreeing in advance to any such change.

Last edited by Heiwos; 03-12-2009 at 01:15 AM..
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,213 posts, read 46,421,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundball View Post
Not to add fuel to the fire and to go off on another tangent ...............Can't Commissioned Officers be recalled until the day they die?
I have never heard of such a thing.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,213 posts, read 46,421,330 times
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Aside from the 'war' issue.

Everyone signs an 8-year contract.

Either you agree to serve 3 years AD and 5 years reserve component, or
you agree to serve 4 years AD and 4 years reserve, or
you agree to serve 6 years AD and 2 year reserve.

If you serve and you get out, and you have not finished a full 8-years, then you are still a reserve component.

Those being 'recalled' of which I have heard about, were all within that 8-years [and they had 'good' Re codes]. So even if they act like they did not know that they were a reserve component, at one time it was explained to them and they did know about it.

On the other hand, every week, in every branch US servicemembers make themselves 'undesirable' for service. Every week folks are being processed out for undesirable conduct or medical reasons, and they get a 'bad' RE code on their DD214.

The overwhelming majority of these are not disabilities. Nor are they anything which would hinder future employment. But no branch of the military wants those folks back in uniform. Once the RE code is checked, if it is a 'bad' one, they are dropped like the proverbial hot potato.

I have been middle-management as the system processed out a bunch of good men under these types of circumstances. Guys who felt they were being treated unfairly and who developed a 'bad attitude'. These are not felons, but rather they have become disenfranchised.

I hate to admit that in one case, our chain of command was convinced a guy was malingering. So they busted him at Captains mast [fined him, restricted his movements, lowered his pay grade] and processed him out. We all followed orders and gave him the biggest load of grief possible. In his out-processing physical, he was sent to a civilian medical 'specialist' in the effort to document his malingering. the specialist found the problem, performed a surgery and fixed the guy. But by then, the chain of command had already documented this entire history of the man's malingering and had taken judicial action. So we ruined his career, booted him out, and all along he had a legit medical problem that was fixable. He walked away in perfect health though, and with a bad RE code.

It opened my eyes to one method of how the system dumps on good men. At one time I had thought of the guy as my friend. Back to the OP, he would never be recalled. He was given an 'undesirable' RE code.

I have no stats on these men, but I am sure that all NCOs have seen this and certainly all officers have done this to men.

Many men who get out after 3 years, 4 years, or 6 years, have bad RE codes and will never be recalled.



I still have an ID card, I still receive a paycheck and I am subject to recall. Not everyone who is
eligible to recall is being recalled. Not everyone who is desirable is being recalled.
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Fly-over country.
1,764 posts, read 6,168,614 times
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Just a note about "OCS".

Officer candidates enlist with a specific training promise. If they fail, they are allowed to pick an enlisted job from a list of jobs open at that point. The risk of failure is moderate. The reward of OCS is getting an opportunity to lead and eventually command. All that fun stuff like job choice, college loan repayment, fat cash bonus and college fund isn't offered. But, you get a commission.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:13 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
1,953 posts, read 4,806,065 times
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a bad RE code can be changed if the ex service member goes before the review board, they can change it to a good RE code, Ive seen it done before and they were able to reenlist.
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