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Old 05-27-2009, 07:47 AM
 
13 posts, read 42,063 times
Reputation: 16

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisdol View Post
^^I was thinking the same thing about the bases having been around for a while.
Exactly. What does the Army have to do with the town that grows next to it. That's civilian and up to the city, county and state government's to maintain. If the town's citizen's want to let it fall into waste, that's their issue, not the GI's living next door in Federally funded land.
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Old 05-27-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,676 posts, read 47,382,203 times
Reputation: 17463
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse
Depends on what goes on at the base in question. We live in the shadows of Eglin AFB, and they do a lot of high level R&D work on base that lead to a lot of high wage/high skill positions in the area. There's now a move to get the same companies doing DoD work to move and cluster more civilian sector tech jobs down here as well and to help some of the small tech firms that subcontract on the big DoD projects to grow bigger. Median family incomes are higher than anywhere in the Panhandle and surrounding parts of Alabama, including largely white collar Tallahassee, and a lot of that is because of Eglin's mission.

That gate of base that opens up right into town dumps you out into a middle-working class area that's regarded as a decent place to live if you don't mind the jet noise, and is strip club and title loan business free. You can find those kinds of businesses elsewhere in the area, but in no greater number than any other similar non-military small metro area.

If it wasn't for Eglin, the Fort Walton Beach area would be just as much of a dump as Panama City Beach is.
I could agree with this statement.

Bring 5,000 familes into an area it will stimulate the local economy a great deal [all the married guys onbase].

But then the 5,000 to 10,000 single guys that go along with that, and ...

A lot of men with disposable income, and very few females.

Does that 'ruin' an area? I do not think so. It changes the area, as it would any place that you brought in so many men with cash.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:24 PM
 
99 posts, read 222,575 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauticadon View Post
How exactly does the military ruin these areas when most bases/post are located in small-medium size towns that are HEAVILY dependent on the military to earn a living?

These areas need the military much more than the military needs them.
which is why those areas fight tooth and nail to keep those bases open, even when it doesn't make sense economically for the military to remain.
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:02 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 3,015,987 times
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Yes, they are magnets for crime and crappy business'. The military has been recruiting from the bottom of the social strata for quite some time, poor desparate types have always seen the military as the home of last resort. Of course not all military personel fit these stereotypes but they have been the bastion of male youth and that's trouble enough. I live close to Fort lewis in Tacoma Wa. It is surrounded by the usual pawn shops strip clubs and fast food outlets. Just a few weeks ago a young girl was dead of an overdose in one of the barracks on base. Drugs, debt, and a vagrant way of life are the usual fare in the military. I served in the sixties and was at fort Ord on the Monterey penninsula in coastal California. It was also a hell hole of predators using up the troops for whatever they could get. I would think that the joint services would demand better of the local cities and towns that host the military bases.
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:25 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,554,684 times
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This post is outdated and uninformed. It is now actually illegal for payday lenders to lend to military. I can't speak for the other services but the "bottom of the social strata" aren't even able to enlist in the Marine Corps. Especially right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Yes, they are magnets for crime and crappy business'. The military has been recruiting from the bottom of the social strata for quite some time, poor desparate types have always seen the military as the home of last resort. Of course not all military personel fit these stereotypes but they have been the bastion of male youth and that's trouble enough. I live close to Fort lewis in Tacoma Wa. It is surrounded by the usual pawn shops strip clubs and fast food outlets. Just a few weeks ago a young girl was dead of an overdose in one of the barracks on base. Drugs, debt, and a vagrant way of life are the usual fare in the military. I served in the sixties and was at fort Ord on the Monterey penninsula in coastal California. It was also a hell hole of predators using up the troops for whatever they could get. I would think that the joint services would demand better of the local cities and towns that host the military bases.
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,676 posts, read 47,382,203 times
Reputation: 17463
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber
Yes, they are magnets for crime and crappy business'. The military has been recruiting from the bottom of the social strata for quite some time, poor desparate types have always seen the military as the home of last resort.
I do think that you are misinformed.
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:54 PM
 
Location: ***Spokane***
1,092 posts, read 2,990,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXclimberX View Post
This is by no means a question of disrespect, but in general it seems that wheverer military bases go crime goes up, the property values decrease, trashy stores come in, and unruly people come into town.

It seems the prescence of military bases (even though a huge economic boon) are offset by the social costs.

Anyone else notice this?
No not in general. Did you have a personal experience at a US Military Facility? I spent most of my adult life in the military and I would say one thing, where there are bases or Forts for the Army, seems the ma and pa car dealerships normally put up their average to less than average inventory of automobiles to attempt to find potential buyers from the Military, primary focus is the newer recruits. Overall, the answer is no, but possibly yes to some civilians trying to make a "quick buck" on the military through autos, local bars and the such.

In closing, if it were not for our Military services, your neighbor could possibly be a terrorist...Please use the word "ruin an area" lightly around any Military or veterans of the US of A..
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:10 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,080 posts, read 38,745,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Just a few weeks ago a young girl was dead of an overdose in one of the barracks on base.
I disagree with your entire post. I do not agree with you because you appear to just spouting hatred aimed at military personnel. Others have already pointed out areas which are inaccurate. I am not going to waste my time trying to point out every error you appear to have posted.

The young girl just a few weeks ago? You mean Leah King who died over three months ago, Feb 15, 2009 of an overdose at Fort Lewis. There was a second girl who was also there using drugs who also overdosed. The Fort Lewis soldier, PVT Timothy Bennitt has been charge with involuntary manslaughter and could face 82 years in a military prison if convicted.

Meanwhile, the Tacoma violent crime rate is one of the highest in the nation, across communities of all sizes (both large and small). Violent offenses tracked included forcible rape, murder and non-negligent manslaughter, armed robbery, and aggravated assault, including assault with a deadly weapon. According to NeighborhoodScout's analysis of FBI reported crime data, your chance of becoming a victim of one of these crimes in Tacoma is one in 95.I certainly hope you are not trying to blame that on the military at Fort Lewis are you?

Can you show me any verifiable data that indicates the high crime rate in Tacoma is primarily because of military personnel?




Rich
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:07 AM
 
13 posts, read 42,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
I do think that you are misinformed.
agreed, in fact you have to have very high aptitude scores nowadays
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:29 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 3,015,987 times
Reputation: 9987
I post from my point of view, not from stats that don't readilly reflect the reality of the situation in question. First off I'd appreciate the full reading of my post by those who immediately don't like any negative commentary on the military period.

If you had bothered to read the post from a non judgemental view you would see that I too was in the military, and I included the fact that my general view was not meant to be a disparaging comment aimed at the entire populace of our military.

Recent news stories have been speaking to the issue of lowered standards, not heightened standards, for recruitment in today's military. Gangs in the military, for example, are of real concern to the leadership, they are a well known fact of military life. Again, we all know that these concerns in no way serve to denigrate the totality of men and women in todays services.

As for the crime stats of the Tacoma area, let me explain the relationship that I have seen develop between the community and the military over the past forty years. The military pays very little to it's majority of low ranking members, the military usualy becomes the biggest employer in any area it occupies, poverty has long been associated with crime, and therefore the area around military bases tend toward a higher rate of crime.

All that I am stating is from my own thoughts on the question posed in the op's statement. As for being "outdated and uninformed", that is another opinion, period. We all have opinions, that's the gist of these forums, someone asks a question, others answer in their own views, all views are then up for all to read, I have trouble understanding the anger that seems to charcterize so much of web based talk forums, these are simply the thoughts of others, if you can't abide the opinions that oppose your own, why post at all? You can say just about anything as long as a sense of decorum is present, unfortunately, American's are beginning to sound like some of their favorite bluster radio types, up to and including the little icons that display their emotional state.

lastly, to "Rich", I was a US Army veteran of the sixties, I served with people that I considered to be of the highest quality anyone could imagine, but it's not in my nature to paint the picture any rosier than it is. The other posts that tend toward my view shouldn't be taken as a proof of "hate", you should be able to see the military as a large and very complex organization, open to all the negative aspects of any social construct of equal size. The fact that the military has a large population of young men, who might become problems in their own towns and cities, who when sequestered together, do in fact become a huge problem for those areas that host the bases. I have travelled the country and that has been my experience, and I'm truly sorry to say that we as a country don't cherish our military enough to change the pardigm of their present pay and social standing.
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