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WHAT?! Sexual misconduct of ANY kind is not condoned... AT ALL! EVER! That is the point behind all policy regarding sexual misconduct including practicing homosexuality. Anyone who allows their sexual proclivities to rule or define their lives is not fit and does not have the required disipline to serve in the armed forces. I am just as opposed to serving with a promiscuous womanizer as I am a homosexual. Why should I be forced to accept anyone's misconduct? Where shall we draw the line?
I think what he was saying is that you can sexually harrass someone, receive paperwork, and go on serving in the military. Even very serious cases may result in article 15s or reduction in rank, but there is a chance you can stay and retire. If you are gay, you are out, period. Even if you have reached 20 years already, you risk losing your benefits. No discussion- gay=kicked-out... period. End of story. Some people use drugs, and manage to stay in. You can get waivers to join the Army with felony convictions... but if you're gay, no way.
I am sure that I do but, I don't know if I do because I make it clear from day one that attitude and behavior while I am around is inappropriate. I expect total professionalism from my subordinates.
From my superiors, I find that if I treat them professionally, they tend to be professional even if that may not be their nature.
I am also sure that I serve with homosexuals... the point I was trying to make (not so clearly) is that if someone feels they need to define who they are by flaunting their sex life with everyone around them... I have a problem with that. Whether they are homo or hetero-sexual. If a person can serve honorably and professionaly, I don't care whether they are homo or hetero-sexual.
IHOP, It is not a matter of "Flaunting." I can be in my PRIVATE backyard, holding hands with my heterosexual partner, and if someone sees me and turns me in I will be kicked out of the military. Congress doesn't say you can be kicked out, it says you MUST BE kicked out. Don't ask, don't tell- any homosexual act is considered "Telling" even in the privacy of your home. You don't have to flaunt it at work to get kicked out. I can be 100% honorable and professional at work, and kiss my partner goodbye in the driveway while my commander is accidently driving by my house, and by law, he must process me for seperation.
The laws of our nation when they were first written, were often with a view toward Biblical sins.
Murder, stealing, adultery, bestiality, sodomy, etc.
In the 1950s when the military law was codified into the UCMJ all of these crimes were included.
Adultery was once a crime in every state. Today it is only a crime in the military.
I see where these laws came from, and I understand it in it's historical setting.
Is it fitting today that these should all be crimes?
Today's society seems to have changed a great deal.
Adultry is a crime for a reason. Imagine you are deployed in a war zone, and your wife finds out you cheated on her. Now you are a danger, because you are not focused on the war at hand. You are focused on the ugly phone calls from your wife, and the fact that she is cleaning out your bank account and taking your kids out of state and you can't do anything about it from Iraq or Afgahnistan. It detracts from the mission. I've seen scorned spouses sitting at their desks in tears, unable to focus because their spouse was sleeping with their best friend or whatnot. It's great if everyone can always leave their personal life at home, but unrealistic.
Besides, entering into a marriage is a form of legal contract. If you can't abide by that contract, what other things are you dishonest about. Dishonesty in a marriage shows character. The military doesn't want dishonest people.
It is also a security concern. If you have access to sensitive of classified information, and you are cheating on your spouse, and someone finds out, that can try to blackmail you with, "Give me information or I'll tell your spouse."
After reading this thread, I'm left with a few thoughts. I once read: "It is not a right to serve in the Armed Forces. It is a privelege." The thing I'm learning about the military is the rules, policies, requirements and qualificatiosn are written out right in front of your face. Not everything is black and white there are some gray areas, however if you know where to get your information the gray areas can become black and white. Not to mention there are very very very few, "special circumstances." What's good for one is good for all.
Although the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy may be bogus it's right there for all to read and all to know. If someone joins a service and is homo-sexual they know what that means for them. Is it fair? IMO no, but it should not be a shock to anyone when someone comes out of the closet and gets kicked out of the military. Even if they have 20 years in and is about the retire. As quoted above the policy states if someone's "outed" they must be kicked out. It's not about favortism it's about the facts.
I firmly believe that anyone should be able to serve there county no matter what their sexual choice. But until someone takes arguements to the appropriate policy makers and changers the rules are clear.
After reading this thread, I'm left with a few thoughts. I once read: "It is not a right to serve in the Armed Forces. It is a privelege."
The U.S. military isn't some fraternal organization or exclusive club. It is the instituition charged with defending our nation. I certainly believe that we should be enlisting & commissioning the most capable Americans to defend our nation. And sexual orientation has nothing to do with fitness to serve in the military.
The U.S. military isn't some fraternal organization or exclusive club. It is the instituition charged with defending our nation. I certainly believe that we should be enlisting & commissioning the most capable Americans to defend our nation. And sexual orientation has nothing to do with fitness to serve in the military.
Uh. why not? It was illegal to be gay when I was in the military under the UCMJ and for a good reason.Same goes for women in combat or on combatent ships Just ain't going to work out.It's foolishness The feminizing and Sissyfying of our armed forces needs to stop. Being gay is a lifestyle choice and nothing more and used to be considered deviant behavior.Whats next accepting Pedophiles? To all you Mothers and Fathers encouraging your Daughters to join Our military shame on you. The first time a Recruiter tries to talk to my girl I will bust his head indeed. My boys will be encouraged to serve their country Just like me and my father and many other members of my family.
When the military completely integrates females and males together ( boot camp, same barraks living, showering together, etc) you would have an analogy.
As of now ,you you don't.
Finally the voice of reason. Thanks.
What's really abhorrent to me is the foolish short-sightedness about the whole thing. It's not about "gay bashing."
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