Cowards in the military (AF, officer, civilian, attorney)

[marmac]

We lost a fellow Minnesotan yesterday.

His dad was from Laos and fought on the side of the CIA in Laos in 1972.
His brother is a Marine in Afghanistan.

He was a proud Army soldier, married with 3 kids.

His dad could not understand how he was trained and equiped to protect himself from attacks once he got to Iraq, but had no way to protect himself when attacked in the US.

Yes, attacked by a Muslim hollering "Allah" as he killed American troops and who posted that he equated suicide bombers with American troops who fall on a grenade to save their fellow soldiers.


RIP-----------PFC Kham Xiong.

You will not be forgotten.

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by RANGER.101ST

i think what needs to happen is a complete revamp of the whole military and go beck to the way it use to be.some of what i see happening today would have never happened 20 years ago.and this candy a@# would have been sniffed out and booted.the old time generals would have read him like a book.nowadays its be polite dont hurt any ones feelings.screw that check your feelings at the door Nancy your going to war.if you didn't want to go then you shouldn't have signed the papers.we have great people in our military and then we have this guy who is in a class of his own.
my deepest sympathy to the families of our fallen soldiers.

Just to try and play the Devil's advocate here.
Would you say the same thing to one of the young ladies that was killed by this idiot, who just got back from the desert. I ask this because she was sent back early, do to the fact that she was (a month and a half) pregnant. She wasn't when she left, because they would have tested her for that. So that means that she got pregnant over there. Now the big question. Should they (The Army) have tossed her out on her can as soon as she got back or was she just getting prego's to get out of the war zone.
Just a question . There are all kinds of people in the Militery, that some think they shouldn't be. The old days are gone, its a new type of Militery and they have to adjust to the new times.

[Seattleite61]

Originally Posted by BlueyedCat

I tried to rep you but I have to spread some around first. This guy hasn't done anything except get free schooling and complain.

Yeah, Dr Phil and Shoshanna Johnson were talking about how the guy had PTSD. PTSD? WTH??? He somehow got second-hand PTSD?

It burns me to no end that the FBI supposedly had them on their radar for the past 6 months AND his former Colonel got on CNN and spoke about how the guy had made terrorist sympatheic comments to him and others in the military Why was he allowed to continue practicing and treating our warriors????

Sure looks to me like both the government (FBI) and some military commanders dropped the ball on this one!

Obviously this man had some deep seeded hatred of our military. Look at who he targeted - deploying troops and those just returning. Had it been anything other than hatred for American troops, he would hav either killed himself or gone out in town and shot it up...JMHO.

I've always felt relatively safe on military posts/bases. No more, and I am not the only military spouse who feels this way. This tragedy has touched the entire military community and beyond

[RANGER.101ST]

would i say what?? ''check your feelings at the door''??
you mixing apples with oranges now.he didn't want to go.she was already over there.why would you misconstrue her pregnancy with any thing but what it was.so she got pregnant why would you think she did it on purpose just to get out.

[tet tea]

Dr Phil and Shoshanna Johnson need a dose of reality!

Wonder if the coward will be sent to Leavenworth... he'll get his reality check there!

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by caution

Radical sub-human nutjobs don't belong in the military. Keeping them out or finding and booting them once they are in, without making everyone else miserable, is a tough job.

In fact, it is so tough, time-consuming and expensive, we'd rather spend money on security theater than real, long-term, honest, dedicated human intel. It seems that trade-off has been accepted, and is a way of life.

Well....not so fast there.

The ground combat forces, and especially the Infantry, always walks a fine line when it comes to "radical sub-human nutjobs." They need those kind of people to do the job they are required to do. In fact, they CREATE them during training, which was revamped back in the mid-50's and early 60's to produce cold-blooded killers instead of just soldiers. Every facet of training was examined by psychologist's, and changed whenever they could, to include things which lowered a man's inhibition over killing.

Consequently, the services are stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place: They must have those kind of soldiers, but they also must find some way to restrain them in inapproiate settings, such as FOB's and back home. That's a difficult job to do and one which they haven't been very good at.

Of course, this does not apply to Maj. Hassan because he wasn't a combat Veteran, but it DOES apply to just about every combat Veteran who returns from the war.

Frankly, I'm surprised we don't see more of this.

And, on the issue of why he wasn't identified and kicked out? Well..the Army is always short of people. Yes, they meet their recruiting goals regularly, but only because the goals were reduced to fit the reality a few years ago. The Army needs to be substantially bigger, but they can't attract enough recruits to fill it, so they just moved the goal posts. What that means is that they can't afford to simply go around kicking out anyone who might cause a problem. It would leave a slot in somebody's Table of Organization and Equipment which can't be filled and that's especially true for the medical services.

I'm not defending that Major or the Army, just pointing out that other things come into play. It's not as cut and dried as you may think.

[alicejb]

I might have interpreted caution's post incorrectly but it seems to me that he was along the same point. That it's tougher to implement the process of weeding undesirables out and it is what it is. I also see stillkit's point-- combat requires certain frame of mind to thrive and survive (doesn't apply to the Major's case though). I can tie in both of your post as this: stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place as you quote.

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by RANGER.101ST

would i say what?? ''check your feelings at the door''??
you mixing apples with oranges now.he didn't want to go.she was already over there.why would you misconstrue her pregnancy with any thing but what it was.so she got pregnant why would you think she did it on purpose just to get out.

I'm not defending the dirt bad, I'm just making a point.

During Desert storm there were tons of issues with unwed girls getting pregnent just to keep from going over there. This idiot obviously, or should I say supposedly had PTSD (I think they said that this was going to be his 3rd tour od duty), still no reason to harm fellow soldiers.

In all my years in the service I saw all kinds of ways troops would pull to keep from going to war and these are just some of them. I've heard a girls once say that, "I didn't join the Military to go to war, I joined to get a free college money." Grant it, she didn't go around poppin caps off at fellow soldiers, but what she did do, is put extra work on her fellow troops that did go, because she was unwilling to pull her height in the ranks. And yes, she could have quite possibly have gottin pregnent to get out of doing her fair share, or she goofed and got pregnent by mistake. Never the less, she should have been tossed out on her ears, just the same as the shooter should have. But, by doing so, the Army would have become a target for the Media to aim for, because it semms that no matter what the Military does, "It's always going to be wrong in someones mind." If they Court Martial him and (he will be found guilty), do they Execute him? Which has not been done in almost 50 years and it will make him a martyr in some of the more radical Muslims eyes. And the media will have a hay-day with it. Or, do they pack his butt away in prison and an American prisoner gets to him, and again he becomes a martyr and the media has a hay-day. If the Military was able to find all of these people and stop them from joining the service because they don't feel "they are Military worthy", again, the media will have a feeding frenzy. The Armed Forces can only do their best to weed these people out "Descreetly" and get the job at hand done and over with, the war. So the (real) troops can come home to their families and freinds.

General Douglas MacArthur once said in a speach to a graduating class at West Point, "For no one preys for peace as much as the soldier does." Some people are going to do what ever it takes to stay alive and in their minds its the right path to take. Cowards come in all forms and packages and they will do what ever it takes.

Personally, I think they should pack the idiot away in a Military prison (Solitary Confinement) for ever and forget about him, so the media (Hopefully) will.

[caution]

Originally Posted by stillkit

Well....not so fast there.

The ground combat forces, and especially the Infantry, always walks a fine line when it comes to "radical sub-human nutjobs." They need those kind of people to do the job they are required to do. In fact, they CREATE them during training, which was revamped back in the mid-50's and early 60's to produce cold-blooded killers instead of just soldiers. Every facet of training was examined by psychologist's, and changed whenever they could, to include things which lowered a man's inhibition over killing.

Consequently, the services are stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place: They must have those kind of soldiers, but they also must find some way to restrain them in inapproiate settings, such as FOB's and back home. That's a difficult job to do and one which they haven't been very good at.

Of course, this does not apply to Maj. Hassan because he wasn't a combat Veteran, but it DOES apply to just about every combat Veteran who returns from the war.

Frankly, I'm surprised we don't see more of this.

And, on the issue of why he wasn't identified and kicked out? Well..the Army is always short of people. Yes, they meet their recruiting goals regularly, but only because the goals were reduced to fit the reality a few years ago. The Army needs to be substantially bigger, but they can't attract enough recruits to fill it, so they just moved the goal posts. What that means is that they can't afford to simply go around kicking out anyone who might cause a problem. It would leave a slot in somebody's Table of Organization and Equipment which can't be filled and that's especially true for the medical services.

I'm not defending that Major or the Army, just pointing out that other things come into play. It's not as cut and dried as you may think.

You totally missed what I was saying.

This guy shouldn't have been allowed to get to this point.

The real fix to the system is too costly and time consuming.

That's it. I don't know WTF your post was about. I know all about the end-cap increase and where the extra bodies came from. The "low" standards have been jacked back up for the most part. This guy is a pre-9-11 contract anyway.

He was a sub-human nut job, and that's about all there is to it, other than the fact he should have been smoked out long ago.

And "filling a slot" in an MTOE isn't what this doc was about. I've seen docs bounced for less. If anything, he's been sitting on WRAMC's TDA getting fat and happy for the last several years. He should have been ID'd as a non-starter during his enlistment.

[GloryB]

Originally Posted by melaniej65

This is absolutely ridiculous! With an all-volunteer Military there is simply NO excuse for a 'person' who joins the Military and then decides that war is not for them! What the hell do they think a standing Military is for???

My husband guarded such cowards like that female Doc (Desert Shield/storm and the still trying to use the system POS Akbar. His professionalism (and those of his fellow 95C/31E) allowed him to do his job and allow the 'powers that be' to keep these cowards (and a murderer alive).

NEWSFLASH!!!! If you have problems with War or think that you may have a HUGE yellow streak running up the middle of your spineless back- then do not accept the money, education or any of the benefits that our FIGHTING men and women are entitled to!!!

I'm thinking if I can find their job description online....so can they.

Duties performed by this MOS include:
Assists in the performance of reconnaissance operations. Employs, fires, and recovers anti-personnel and anti-tank mines. Locates and neutralizes mines. Operates, mounts/dismounts, zeros, and engages targets using night vision sight. Operates and maintains communications equipment and operates in a radio net. Operates in a NBC contaminated area. Constructs field expedient firing aids for infantry weapons. Performs as a member of a fire team during a movement to contact, reconnaissance, and security, an attack, defense, situational training exercises and all infantry dismounted battle drills. Processes prisoners of war and captured documents.
Leads an infantry team in combat operations, providing tactical and technical guidance to subordinates and professional support to both superiors and subordinates in the accomplishment of their duties. Leads, supervises, and trains subordinate personnel. Calls for and adjusts indirect fire. Evaluates terrain and selects weapon emplacement. Controls organic fires. Installs and recovers anti-handing devices on anti-tank mines and electrical and non-electrical demolition charges. Supervises construction of hasty fortifications and re ceipt, storage, and issue of ammunition. Records operational information on maps. Receives and implements combat orders, di rects deployment of personnel in offensive, defensive, and retro grade operations. Requests, observes, and adjusts direct supporting fire. Evaluates terrain and supervises the emplacement of sighting and firing all assigned weapons. Uses maps and map overlays, performs intersection and resection, and determines elevation and grid azimuths. Leads a fire team during a movement to contact, reconnaissance and security, an attack, defense, situational training exercises, and all infantry dismounted battle drills.

I'm tired of a handful of ninny's taking away the respect and honor the rest of our brave soldiers deserve.