U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 03-16-2014, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
7,439 posts, read 4,271,176 times
Reputation: 3735

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian View Post
Wardendreden,

The problem IS smaller than the civilian populace (much). Sexual harassment is a crime in the military where it is pick and choose out in the civilian population (just like many things are against UCMJ while in and wouldn't bat an eye under civilian Federal statutes). Sexual assault is a crime on both sides and we do have a big problem in the military (still much smaller than the civilian populace, but we are deservedly expected to be on a pedestal and we are not meeting it).

And I am actually in favor of this particular set (sexual assault in particular) not being in military commanders' hands concerning "prosecutorial discretion". The vast majority are not that smart on UCMJ (there are too few hours in basic, intermediate, and commander courses concerning this) and no better than layman asking their local brigade (or whatever it is in the other services) staff judge advocate on what the next step is. Too easy to screw up and since our track record on these things is already all over the place concerning prosecutions vs the sweep under the rug courses of actions that we all have read about (or seen personally).

And as for that Msgt asking if an Airman was gay (statement, act, marriage)? At that particular time (for better or worse), it probably was NOT out of bounds in a professional discussion (UCMJ and all at that time). Times are a changing and your statement about it being inappropriate would be very much true...in today's Service. But not then.
I'm not sure where you get your information from, but quite a number of sources are reporting that sexual harassment is equal or greater than in civilian population.

Quote:
Sexual harassment is a problem that occurs throughout society, but most commonly within organized settings; a person is more likely to be sexually harassed by someone at work or school than by a neighbor. In most cases, the harasser takes advantage of an inequality in the power relationship he has with the victim. For example, sexual harassment in the workplace frequently involves a supervisor harassing a subordinate. The military, with its strict hierarchies of rank, is an ideal breeding ground for sexual harassment. Nevertheless, it’s understood that sexual harassment in the military is a problem not only for the victim, but for the military itself, because sexual harassment destroys the trust and commitment the military works so hard to instill in its members.
How Common Is Sexual Harassment in the Military?

Quote:
A substantial increase in reported sexual assaults was reported at the 3 U.S. military academies for the school year 2010 to 2011. It is possible that the increase resulted only from increased willingness to report incidents; increased reporting has been one of the goals of the Department of Defense. According to a 2011 Newsweek report, women are more likely to be assaulted by a fellow soldier than killed in combat. In 2010, according to the Department of Defense’s Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office there were 3,158 military sexual assaults reported, however the Pentagon’s statistics say that that represents just 13.5 percent of the estimated 19,000 assaults that actually occurred that year. During that period, 575 of the cases were processed having found to be within military jurisdiction and with sufficient evidence. Of the cases processed, 96 went to court-martial. Another investigation found that women were 3x more likely to report an incident, with one in five females and one in 15 males in the United States Air Force, reporting a sexual assault.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...tates_military

Quote:
A 2003 study of women seeking health care through the VA from the period of the Vietnam war through the first Gulf War found that nearly 1 in 3 women was raped while serving - almost twice the rate of rape in US society - and that 8 in 10 women had been sexually harassed during their military service. Rates were consistent through all periods and wars studied. Of those who reported having been raped, 37 percent were raped at least twice and 14 percent were gang-raped.

What's often overlooked in these statistics is that the reported prevalence of rape in the military is based on a period of 2-6 years in military service, whereas the sexual assault of women in civilian society (nearly 1 in 5) is based on lifetime prevalence - signifying an even more concentrated culture of sexual assault and a higher threat for active-duty military women from fellow soldiers. A distinct pattern has emerged from VA studies which reveals older and sometimes senior men rape younger and more junior women, exposing the dominance motive in rape.
Military Sexual Abuse: A Greater Menace Than Combat

The fact is that sexual harassment in the military if FAR WORSE than in civilian life. And even today there are less than evenhanded methods for protecting military service personnel.

And from my own time in the USMC (65-69), I'm quite aware of the military's ability to "hide" information it doesn't want out there.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-17-2014, 09:49 PM
 
Location: vic of KHND
385 posts, read 805,803 times
Reputation: 323
Okay. Where do I get my information from? You aren't going to like my response...the CDC and the United States Commission on Civil Rights and their attributed, statutory, and peer reviewed reports.

http://www.sapr.mil/public/docs/rese...cal_Report.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDC Comparisons with Women in the U.S. General Population, 2010 Key Findings / Published March 2013
Among women in the general population aged 18 to 59 years, 40.3% experienced lifetime contact sexual violence. Similarly, 36.3% of active duty women and 32.8% of wives of active duty men experienced contact sexual violence in their lifetime.

Among women in the general population aged 18 to 59 years, 39.7% experienced lifetime physical violence, rape, or stalking by an intimate partner; 31.5% of active duty women and 29.5% of wives of active duty men experienced lifetime physical violence, rape, or stalking by an intimate partner.


Among the relatively small number of significant differences observed between women in the
general population and women in the military samples, the majority of these differences indicated a decreased risk of IPV, contact sexual violence by an intimate partner, and stalking for active duty women, compared to the general population of women.


http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/09242013_S...e_Military.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Commission on Civil Rights 2013 Report
Another challenge in comparing military sexual assault rates to those researched in other young populations, such as colleges or universities,lies in the fact that various available studies use different definitions for the term “sexual assault” and also implement different study methodologies. ...In addition, the DoD includes a wider range of sexual contact crimes, such as groping, in its definition of sexual assault.


Of course, I understand if you don't want to believe the CDC or USCCR and would rather trust the author of the last article that you quoted (the one that makes us uniformed heathens seem so despicable):

Quote:
H Patricia Hynes

H. Patricia Hynes is a retired professor of environmental health from the Boston University School of Public Health. She directs the Traprock Center for Peace and Justice and is a member of Nuclear Free Future.
Click on good ole "Traprock Center" and then the "about us" if you don't think she might be a tad biased....

So, yes. I do think we (my brothers and sisters in arms) are to be held a higher standard. And because of the high benchmark, the epidemic seems to be off the charts (I must see one assault a week just driving to work...right?), but do attempt to maintain some perspective.

Last edited by icarian; 03-17-2014 at 10:05 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2014, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
7,439 posts, read 4,271,176 times
Reputation: 3735
Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian View Post
Okay. Where do I get my information from? You aren't going to like my response...the CDC and the United States Commission on Civil Rights and their attributed, statutory, and peer reviewed reports.

<snip>
So we will have dueling resources--I'm thinking I can come up with more than you!

How about this one for a very recent instance in which the Senate defeated an interesting bill proposed and opposed by Democrats and supported and opposed by Republicans.

From a March 7, 2014 article:
Quote:
A bill that would remove the prosecution of military sexual assaults out of the chain of command faced defeat in the Senate on Thursday, falling just short of the 60-vote threshold needed to advance the legislation.

The Military Justice Improvement Act fell five votes short, with the Senate voting 55 to 45 to invoke cloture on the bill Thursday.

The measure was the brainchild of Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., who spent months lobbying senators to sign onto her bill. The legislation had the support of many groups representing survivors of rape and sexual assault in the military, but it was vehemently opposed by military brass. Gillibrand even drew the support of two unlikely allies – Sens. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and Rand Paul, R-Ky.

“The people who do not trust the chain of command are the victims,” Gillibrand said on the Senate floor Thursday before the vote. “That breach of trust, that fundamental breach of trust has been broken for victims of sexual assault.”

The issue became a high-profile debate as it pit two Democratic women of the Senate against each other – Gillibrand and Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo. McCaskill led the charge against Gillibrand’s bill, arguing that stripping military commanders of their prosecution powers would undermine the military’s authority.

Joining forces with Sens. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., and Deb Fischer, R-Neb., McCaskill introduced a bill of her own, which eliminates the “good soldier” defense and allows sexual assault victims to challenge the military if they are discharged from their service. Gillibrand has said she will support McCaskill’s measure.

The vote came shortly after the Army suspended its top prosecutor for sexual assault cases after a lawyer who worked with him recently alleged he groped and attempted to kiss her at a sexual-assault legal conference more than two years ago.
1250 AM WTMA - Gillibrand Military Sexual Assault Bill Fails in Senate [From ABC News]

The measure was defeated not on a vote but on failure to defeat a procedural filibuster.

Try watching the trailer for a new documentary coming out:

Quote:
What struck me most about the documentary The Invisible War was not only the prevalence of sexual assault cases in the armed services (disturbing as that is), but the military justice system that so egregiously dismisses these cases, not only letting perpetrators off scot-free, but punishing the rape victims, who are mainly women. 3,230 rape cases reported in 2009. What makes the military justice system unique is that victims have to report through the chain of command, even when their superior officer is the assailant (33% of cases). Of the 3,230 rapes reported in 2009 in the armed forces, command only convened a little over 200 courts martial. Herein lies the crux of the injustice. The commander’s unilateral power to override the reports, investigations, and disciplinary actions of the Judges Advocate is clearly and flagrantly being abused in the epidemic of sexual assault. The commanders are utterly callous toward and complicit in the life-wrecking violence being wrought upon these women. Of course it is a gender issue. They resent women in the ranks.
Why is Rape so Prevalent in the Military? | He Said, She Said: The Forum

More information including a video interview

Quote:
Sexual assault has become a common practice in the US military camps, an international lawyer tells Press TV, warning of traumatization of rape victims.

“Within the US Marines there is the practice...whereby new marine officers are actually sexually assaulted by other marines,” Alfred Lambremont Webre said on Monday.
He added that “reported sexual assaults in the US military” in 2013 were up 50 percent from a year before.
Quoting the US Department of Veterans Affairs, Webre said “85,000 US veterans received treatment for sexual abuse trauma…in 2013.”
On Saturday, US President Barack Obama called on the Americans to help put an end to growing number of sexual assaults in the military.


There were more than 5,000 reports of sexual assault filed during the fiscal year that ended on September 30, 2013, in comparison with 3,374 in 2012.

The US Defense Department estimated that reported cases of sexual abuse in the military increased nearly 40 percent in 2012 to about 26,000 cases from 19,000 in 2011.
PressTV - Sexual assault a common practice in US military: Lawyer

The DoD itself, admits that roughly 80% of assaults go unreported.

Here is the full movie of the documentary The Invisible War. At the very beginning it states all statistics are taken from government studies.



It's amazing how many of these assaulted women were officers.

You might enlighten yourself soldier. And if you are an officer then make yourself part of the solution rather than part of the cover up.

Last edited by Wardendresden; 03-18-2014 at 09:43 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2014, 01:42 PM
 
Location: vic of KHND
385 posts, read 805,803 times
Reputation: 323
Don't patronize or preach to me. NOTHING that you quoted contradicts what I said. YOU said we are worse than the civilian population concerning sexual assaults. You are wrong...and I backed it up in my previous post ad nauseam. With your current post, you are attempting to change what you are arguing (I believe you are trying to say we have a sexual assault problem and you are attempting to say I disagree?). I also stated that we DO indeed have a problem and that we must rectify because we are held to higher standard.

And you attempt to preach to me about "enlightening myself"? Don't.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2014, 02:51 PM
 
4,574 posts, read 5,067,715 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
So we will have dueling resources--I'm thinking I can come up with more than you!

How about this one for a very recent instance in which the Senate defeated an interesting bill proposed and opposed by Democrats and supported and opposed by Republicans.

From a March 7, 2014 article:
1250 AM WTMA - Gillibrand Military Sexual Assault Bill Fails in Senate [From ABC News]

The measure was defeated not on a vote but on failure to defeat a procedural filibuster.

Try watching the trailer for a new documentary coming out:

Why is Rape so Prevalent in the Military? | He Said, She Said: The Forum

More information including a video interview

PressTV - Sexual assault a common practice in US military: Lawyer

The DoD itself, admits that roughly 80% of assaults go unreported.

Here is the full movie of the documentary The Invisible War. At the very beginning it states all statistics are taken from government studies.



It's amazing how many of these assaulted women were officers.

You might enlighten yourself soldier. And if you are an officer then make yourself part of the solution rather than part of the cover up.
I pretty much disregard your sources as not being objective. Documentaries, papers, news stories are in the business of making a case and choose whatever will make their case. So I always look at them with a jaundiced eye.

I am not sure cases of rape or sexual assault are any more common in the military in that age group than they are at a college frat party, bar, or pool hall. Or by high school football players or date rape. Or sadly being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It was my experience that where there was rape in the Army, alcohol was usually involved one way or another. Sexual harassment is a career killer for the harasser and was usually jumped on with both feet by someone in a position to do something about it. For goodness sakes, we have been POSHed to death so anyone would be just plain stupid to do it and deserves what he/she gets. Sexual assault might be a different dynamic depending upon the definition.

Hiding what happened doesn't help in the long run, but that is just what many young ones do. And not only in the military but in college and high school as well.

That being said, 1 rape, 1 sexual assault, or 1 sexual harassment is 1 too many and should not be tolerated anywhere. Anywhere. Rape particularly is a horrible thing that shatters the soul.

So if that is what you are saying, I agree. I just think it is too prevalent in our society at large. IMO
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2014, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
7,439 posts, read 4,271,176 times
Reputation: 3735
Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian View Post
Don't patronize or preach to me. NOTHING that you quoted contradicts what I said. YOU said we are worse than the civilian population concerning sexual assaults. You are wrong...and I backed it up in my previous post ad nauseam. With your current post, you are attempting to change what you are arguing (I believe you are trying to say we have a sexual assault problem and you are attempting to say I disagree?). I also stated that we DO indeed have a problem and that we must rectify because we are held to higher standard.

And you attempt to preach to me about "enlightening myself"? Don't.
Your own CDC source admits toward the end that a better survey must be taken using a larger sample size. That throws its entire study into question.

In the meantime, are you stating factually that sexual assault and harassment in the military is NOT on the rise? Because everything I read says it is---even DoD reports.

And since so many more sexual assaults/harassment in the military is not even reported---I doubt further the CDC report. If there were that many assaults at General Motors it would be all over the news--just like the military fiascos are.

Quote:
Female service members account for 15 percent of the armed forces, but they were 46 percent of those estimated to have been victims of sexual assault in the military in 2012. Meanwhile, 90 percent of alleged perpetrators were male. What’s worse, 62 percent of victims who reported attacks in 2012 said that they were retaliated against both professionally and socially for reporting those crimes.
-------------
The military prides itself as an institution of leadership and integrity. Everyday service members can and do conduct themselves with the high degree of professionalism that we have come to expect of our nation’s military forces. But when it comes to sexual assault, the military’s track record is getting steadily worse. Just this past week the Pentagon reported that the U.S. Naval Academy is investigating allegations that three members of the academy’s football team sexually assaulted a female midshipman. This week academy officials at West Point disbanded the club rugby team in response to a crude email chain that was both hostile and degrading toward women, including their female classmates. This country should cringe at the thought of what the upcoming week might reveal, as it seems that with every passing week, another story involving sexual violence and scandal in the military makes headlines.
5 Myths About Military Sexual Assault | RealClearPolitics

Quote:
Retaliation is part of a military-wide pattern that has prevented countless cases from being reported and investigated, exacerbating the epidemic, according to victims' advocates. A Pentagon report released earlier this month found 62 percent of sexual assault victims in the military who reported being attacked say they faced some kind of retaliation afterward.


"It's an ongoing problem that is not getting better, it's getting worse, as the latest statistics out of the Pentagon show," said Brian Purchia, spokesman for Protect Our Defenders, which has been helping Thompson. "Unfortunately commanders are conflicted: When a sexual assault occurs on their watch, it reflects poorly on them and that's why it's shoved under the rug. The perpetrators frequently out rank the victims, which is also why there is this bias. They're going to trust people they've known — not an 18 or 19-year-old just new to the service."
Rape victim: Retaliation prevalent in military

Quote:
As it relates to military rapes, the Pentagon released data last year during the time span of July 1, 2012 to June 20, 2013. According to an article from Policymic.com the reports were at the number of 3,553 reported sexual assaults, which was a 43% increase from the year before. This essentially means that the issue of sexual assault in the military is a growing concern.
Sexual Assault In The Military – Isn’t This A Common Sense Law? | The Left, The Right, & The In Between

And there is obviously reasons to cover up the degree of sexual assault in the military, and plenty of reason to believe it is far worse than in the civilian population. This Wall Street Journal report suggests TWICE as high.

Quote:
Data from the Center for Disease Control's 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey found that 1% of American adult women responded that they had been raped in the 12 months before taking the survey, regardless of whether they reported their crime. Extrapolating from Capt. Rodman's date, there were 2,936 reported sexual assaults of women in the armed services in 2012 (including civilian victims), indicating a prevalence rate among the military's 146,000 women that may be twice as high as the civilian sector.
How Prevalent Is Sexual Assault in the Armed Forces?
The Wall Street Journal, May 28, 2013

And how well does the military do in prosecuting such cases--how about a paltry ten percent of those reported.

Quote:
The Veterans Health Administration reports that military women are more likely to (1 in 5) more likely to experience military sexual trauma, but the VHA is increasingly seeing signs of military sexual trauma in men. The Department of Defense paints a slightly different picture, noting that in 2012 an estimated 26,000 service members were targets of sexual assaults, and over 14,000 of these incidents involved male victims. Despite the high estimates, only 3,000 sexual assaults were reported and only 300 were prosecuted in military court.
The U.S. Military

And this is a forum where people post differing views and provide varying sources in support. I think my data trumps yours---it certainly is getting a lot more press.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2014, 06:15 PM
 
Location: vic of KHND
385 posts, read 805,803 times
Reputation: 323
You are changing what you claimed and now arguing points that no one else has disputed. Yep, you "trumped" me (as I hike up my pant's leg to not get it dirty). Good luck.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2014, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
7,439 posts, read 4,271,176 times
Reputation: 3735
Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian View Post
You are changing what you claimed and now arguing points that no one else has disputed. Yep, you "trumped" me (as I hike up my pant's leg to not get it dirty). Good luck.
Nope, you are not reading. I provided specific data regarding military vs civilian sexual assaults.

Quote:
Extrapolating from Capt. Rodman's date (sic), there were 2,936 reported sexual assaults of women in the armed services in 2012 (including civilian victims), indicating a prevalence rate among the military's 146,000 women that may be twice as high as the civilian sector.
How Prevalent Is Sexual Assault in the Armed Forces?

This statement was made in refuting a report by Capt. Rodman entitled The Pentagon's Bad Math on Sexual Assault.

Further evidence of the "good old boy" network protecting men accused of sexual assault in the military is in today's news.

Quote:
Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair — who struck a plea deal after being accused of sexually assaulting his former lover — was sentenced Thursday to pay $24,100 in fines and restitution, but not jailed or demoted.

The most serious charges against Sinclair, 51, were dropped as part of the deal he made midway through his high-profile court martial, but he still could have faced prison time.

Instead, a military judge gave him a reprimand, ordered him to pay $5,000 a month for four months, plus $4,100 for improper use of his official credit card, NBC affiliate WNCN reported from Fort Bragg, N.C.

His rank was not reduced, but if it's unclear of his pension will be intact.

Earlier this week, Rep. Jackie Speier, D-Calif., who has spearheaded efforts to curb military sexual assault, predicted Sinclair would get a slap on the wrist.
NBC News - Breaking News & Top Stories - Latest World, US & Local News

It's easy for outsiders to predict what will most likely happen with military sexual assault cases that are brought before a military court.

So hike up those breeches a little bit more if you think it will help you ignore the evidence slapping you in the face.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2017, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Yucaipa, California
9,193 posts, read 16,260,668 times
Reputation: 5748
There was a nude photo scandal of female marines on facebook. It was exposed earlier this year. One marine was booted out due to taking a female cpl nude pic without her consent (so she says).
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top