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Old 01-06-2010, 08:53 AM
 
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Are there any vets on here having a hard time finding a job?

I think I read some statistic that said veterans typically have higher unemployment levels than most other groups of job seekers.

I know the defense contractors such as Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman and some gov't jobs tend to seek out and hire vets, but I don't think most companies focus their recruiting efforts on veterans.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:03 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,807 posts, read 38,125,571 times
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Government (Federal) jobs gives veterans preference points.

Some defense contractors hire vets for their experience and their training. I was in Hawk missiles many years ago. How many Hawk missile mechanics are needed in the civilian sector? Raytheon had jobs...

Economy is rough right now for a lot of people.

I don't really believe veterans typically have higher unemployment levels than any other groups of people. I would like to see verifiable proof. But It could depend on many factors. And I'm sure each family would have a different opinion. All of the veterans I personally know have a job (That I can think of).

It seem many young veterans tend to go unemployed for a while until they establish themselves...


Rich

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 01-07-2010 at 06:47 AM..
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,458,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heeha View Post
Are there any vets on here having a hard time finding a job?

I think I read some statistic that said veterans typically have higher unemployment levels than most other groups of job seekers.

I know the defense contractors such as Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman and some gov't jobs tend to seek out and hire vets, but I don't think most companies focus their recruiting efforts on veterans.
My husband retired from the Air Force two years ago and when he came home and told me he was going to "get out at 20" we went into "Operation Find-A-Job". Our goal was to find a job that had good job security (frankly, I'd stay away from defense contracting) and a good salary. We knew we'd likely have to move and pay a significant amount in flying around and interviewing.

My husband retired as a E-6 (he was selected for E-7 but declined because he didn't want to commit to another 2 years) at 20 years and 15 days of service. He was in Base Operations. We used the internet almost exclusively and applied for one airport manager job after another. Nearly every one of the airport jobs fell under either the city employee and state employee category so it was the same as applying for a GS job. We had numerous resume formats and then a resume that we "cut and pasted" into the electronic forms. He was called back for 4 job interviews...one in Portland, OR, one in Austin, TX, one in Houston, TX, and one in Denver, CO. At the time, we were living in Florida and the job interviews had to be in person (meaning getting on a plane) and had to be paid for by us out-of-pocket. We started looking and applying for jobs about 6 months before his retirement date.

What we found surprising was that at two of those locations (Portland and Houston), he was called by a HR Manager from the city employee office and told that while he was rated as "qualified" for the job, the 2 actual airport managers "did not hire military members." They apologized and told my husband "good luck." Nice. I think that saying that may be illegal but even if we fought it, we didn't want to start out my husband's second career in an openly hostile work environment.

So, we decided on Denver (thank God because Denver is a huge airport and not feeling the huge passenger drop offs that are affecting the rest of the country). My husband had his retirement ceremony in Florida, the next day I had my going-away party at my GS job, the next day the movers came and two days after that, we were driving across the country towards a city that neither of us had ever stepped foot in (not including the job interview). We arrived on Friday evening and my husband started work on Monday morning.

I think no matter if you're a vet or a civilian, you have to be prepared to move if necessary and you have to use the tools that are out there (my husband used an airport employee internet site that had a link to job openings) to your advantage. If you don't know how to apply for a civil service job, you NEED to take a class and at the very minimum, attend a TAP class. Civil Service jobs are pretty easy to get if you know what the "KSAs" are and how you have to reword your resume. The family support center should have someone who can help you with it and your military service helps you get a veteran's preference which puts you ahead of the average Joe. But you need to be prepared for a lengthy period of time between applying and actually being offered a job. If you haven't separated or retired from Active Duty yet, now is the time to start your employment search. If you waited until you got out to start looking, you will probably have to be prepared to not have a job (or take an interim job) for a while.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:10 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,807 posts, read 38,125,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3Ds View Post
I think no matter if you're a vet or a civilian, you have to be prepared to move if necessary and you have to use the tools that are out there


If you don't know how to apply for a civil service job, you NEED to take a class and at the very minimum, attend a TAP class. Civil Service jobs are pretty easy to get if you know what the "KSAs" are and how you have to reword your resume. The family support center should have someone who can help you with it and your military service helps you get a veteran's preference which puts you ahead of the average Joe.


But you need to be prepared for a lengthy period of time between applying and actually being offered a job. If you haven't separated or retired from Active Duty yet, now is the time to start your employment search. If you waited until you got out to start looking, you will probably have to be prepared to not have a job (or take an interim job) for a while.
Excellent advice! I thought my wife told me "KSA's" were no longer needed, but whatever, your advice is consistant from what I have observed for 40+ years. Resumes are now sent on-line. All Federal jobs are listed on USAJOBS - The Federal Government's Official Jobs Site which is a Federal web site. Starting there would be a good idea.


Rich
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:37 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,721,235 times
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-----"airport manager jobs"--

I am amazed that a military man with a retiring rank of----E-6---would have the qualifications and experience to be hired as an --airport manager-- in a big city airport.

If true, I lost my faith in big city airports !
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 6,174,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
-----"airport manager jobs"--

I am amazed that a military man with a retiring rank of----E-6---would have the qualifications and experience to be hired as an --airport manager-- in a big city airport.

If true, I lost my faith in big city airports !
You are stereotyping military members by their rank, not their qualifications and education.

Have you ever served in the military?
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:12 AM
 
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Yes I have,

Served as an A-6 plane captain at 2 different NAS.

I have never seen an E-6 have that much insight, military experience, in being the NAS manager , that they would somehow be qualified to be the airport manager of a large city airport.

There were a couple officers who were directly responsible for all phases of those NAS that would be.

In the overal operation of a NAS, an E-6 enlisted man is a long ways from actually being the NAS --"MANAGER "
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:56 PM
 
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marmac, you are way off base with your comments. The AF doesn't promote based off job like the other services. I'm not going to get into the deatils of how they do it, but the result of their promotion process that it is very common to have E6s in senior billets. It takes longer to even reach E6 in the AF, on average, than any other service. Him being in E6 in no way calls his qualifications or experience in to question.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,458,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
-----"airport manager jobs"--

I am amazed that a military man with a retiring rank of----E-6---would have the qualifications and experience to be hired as an --airport manager-- in a big city airport.

If true, I lost my faith in big city airports !
Not really sure how to take your comments. Snotty is the only word I can think of, though I'm sure there is a better adjective.

Perhaps you are reading the job title as something more. He's not in charge of the entire airport. Kim Day is in charge of DIA and her title is "Aviations Manager." Directly under her is my husband's boss whose title is "Director of Airport Operations and Public Safety". Someone else has to be in charge of the food service, janitors, parking attendants, police, shops, etc. My husband is one of 10 who are in charge of Airport Operations. He's called an Airport Operations Manager. He is in charge of the movement of aircraft, air traffic controllers, the fire department, snow removal, security breaches, even the train systems, etc. When the Continental airliner ran off the runway last year, he was in charge of the accident scene and can be heard on the NTSB tapes. And he is the supervisor of 5 Assistant Airport Operations Managers, one of whom is a former Air Force Captain who has told him that he is the best supervisor he has ever had, military or civilian.

I suppose the obvious question is this: Why would someone who has 18 years of experience ONLY in Base Ops (including being the Base Ops Mgr at Ramstein AB, Luke AFB and MacDill AFB...three huge, busy bases), who has their bachelor's degree in Airport Sciences from Embry Riddle, taken 4 high-level Airport Manager courses (that the AF sent him to TDY...where he was one of the only military members there...everyone else were civilians), while active duty did approx 50 airport surveys around the world with the TALCE at AMC, and was rewarded 2 times with Wing Airman of the Year awards NOT be qualified? He works with people who have about the same number of years under their belts, but mostly from working at smaller airports...so how does their experience differ? FAA regulations are the exact same...whether you're at a military base or an airport. While active duty, he dealt with airplane crashes, fires, emergency landings, plenty of supervision (which comes in handy) and round-the-clock shifts during massive airlift operations, hurricanes, and high-level visits.

And, in case, for whatever reason, your "faith" needs to be further restored...everyone who works as an AOM has to be rated as "qualified" by their superiors...the final test is a 6-hour all-encompassing verbal and visual test that is given by the actual "Big Boss". He was told to expect to be on probation for at least 10 months, which is the average time to get through the testing and training. He was rated "complete" in 6 months...the quickest anyone has ever completed their qualification period...and not only was he "qualified" but he was one of only 3 people (out of 10) to be rated as "highly qualified." Seems the Air Force did it's job. And, since Denver has one of the only airports in the country that has been rated by the FAA as "outstanding" in terms of safety and on-time record, he certainly doesn't need some random person on city-data.com deciding that he isn't qualified to do his job. Seems the person interviewing him, his co-workers and his supervisees wouldn't agree.

I know...I'm bragging...but everytime I drive to the airport, I am so in awe...it's a gigantic airport and I am as proud as I can be that my husband plays a huge part in it. I'm also not surprised that he is the only outsider who gets invited to the Fire Department's Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners, is on a first name basis with the little old ladies in charge of the USO, knows nearly every security guard, every TSA person and is always getting free food at Paradise Bakery and The Grille. He knows that he was in the right place at the right time...that's a huge part of getting any job...but the reason people like him is because he actually LIKES what he does...which is an awesome thing to be able to say about a career.

Anything further you'd like to add or would you just like to say, "sorry for assuming your lowly E-6 husband would not know how to do a job after 20 years of service"?

Last edited by the3Ds; 01-06-2010 at 04:43 PM..
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,458,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
I have never seen an E-6 have that much insight, military experience, in being the NAS manager , that they would somehow be qualified to be the airport manager of a large city airport.
The person right now in charge of base ops at MacDill AFB (and subsequently the airfield that takes care of USSOCOM and USCENTCOM) got his job after retirement from the AF and was also an E-6. He is a GS-12, which interestingly, is the same GS level given to my husband by the City of Denver after rating his military qualifications and translating it into "civil service speak."
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