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Old 06-05-2010, 09:50 AM
 
10 posts, read 64,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
I held US Army MOS 95B, (the old MOS) (Military Policeman) but only worked in it a few months.

Your military service may help you get into civilian law enforcement, being an MP won't help you that much normally, a degree in Ciminal Justice will generally help.

Why not go into OCS while you are in the service? Or apply before you go in?

"Butter Bars"? Most US Army helicopter pilots are Warrant Officers. Correct me if I am wrong, I have not verified that in several years.



That happens, in all services, do not think you can sit around and then suddenly decide to get in the service.



For enlisted, you might start ahead, but get in the correct Army MOS and you can get ahead faster. Normally longer enlisted MOS schools lead to faster promotions (and there are a lot of factors)


-Housing has been improving over the years - Generally yes but I only lived in Gov quarters 4 years out of 22.5 years, and those quarters were good.


-Faster promotions - Generally true for Enlisted.

-More longer deployments and more frequent - Maybe, depends on your MOS.

-More educational benifits - This has been generally true since the 70's, there are a lot of opportunities.

-More Jobs (I qualified for 16 MOS's with my latest ASVAB score) - It seems there are more specific MOS's in the Army, and it is possible to change MOS more often in the Army.

-More benifits (for those who qualify. I'm not stupid) - Not sure what you mean. the Army has a lot of opportunities.

-More deployments mean tax free income to suplement what you make - Ain't worth it....

-Various military Tri-Care medical benifits for me and my family - All those benefits are equal for all services.



Air Force


-More technical jobs - Don't know, probably, but the Navy may have more, not going to argue that, there are factors, Nuke operator in Thule sound good, etc?

-More jobs for Officers - Not sure, what you mean, either you become an Officer or you do not, that is the issue. Look up the number of Commissioned Officer's in the USAF and number of Commissioned and Warrant Officers in the Army.

-People are more friendly and kinder to each other - I hear that. I have Army buddies I keep in contact with which I have known 40+ years. When you are part of the team, you stick together. I know a lot of Marines, they really stick together. I don't like that phrase. Too many variables.

-Seems to value intelligence more than the Army - Some/many Army unit's value teamwork. There are Army Sergeants with Masters, Bachelors and PHD's, but it really depends on your MOS and duty station.

-Prefers it's members be more educated and take more educational course's - Maybe so, but it means more opportunity for Army personnel to excel. I know the secret to the Army E-1 to E-5 promotion system...

-Takes more gruff from the other service's about thier lesser amount of work and various other comforts during deployments - So. My kids were born on Air Force bases, I was assigned to two Air Force bases, I worked with NATO units, and went to some schools with Marines. I held several MOS's and got no re-enlistment bonus's, Remember, I am retired Army...




You want some advice? Don't even talk like that. I've stood in Army mess lines longer than you have been alive. Show some maturity now. You tired, crawl in a box for a while, come out refreshed ready for the task. "Aviation"? Took me many years to get my pilots license, took my wife two, we owned our own planes for over 10 years, I completed a three year A&P school, I started flying at age 14, I'm 61 now. My advice (again) act mature...



No one knows the answer to that question, it will be an estimate. I don't even want to guess.

Good luck to you Josh L!
Thanks for the info and giving me what I needed to hear. Thanks for humbling me to I guess I kinda needed that I've just been so frustrated that nothing has worked out and no one has given me the straight answer to my problem. I will defiantly keep that in mind and to be honest I want to stick with the aviation but I really want to make myself a well rounded person and have a good head on my shoulders. Keep in mind this is the rest of my life I'm talking about here so this is very important.


Bump: Also forgot I wanted to say that I have seen officer pilot's in the Army. Again with being an officer you move up the chain of command however as a WO you stick with your job. (Me and my recruiter discussed the possibility of doing WO school and flying that way. That is still in the air right now but I think I might do that. Who knows depending on the input and feedback I get from people here and then discussing it with my recruiter and family we can make a choice. I just don't want to do anything rash or quick and come to regret it.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 6,225,911 times
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Something to consider: If you had a hard time getting your mind around going to school at Embry Riddle wait until you're in the Army going through training while someone is kicking you in the ass. Makes for an interesting juggling act. Think that's tough, wait until you're in OCS (Commissioned) or WOCS (Warrant) officer school, they will make basic training look like kindergarden.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:03 AM
 
10 posts, read 64,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balad1 View Post
Something to consider: If you had a hard time getting your mind around going to school at Embry Riddle wait until you're in the Army going through training while someone is kicking you in the ass. Makes for an interesting juggling act. Think that's tough, wait until you're in OCS (Commissioned) or WOCS (Warrant) officer school, they will make basic training look like kindergarden.
It wasn't just getting my mind around college it was the fact that I had set unrealistic goals for myself and pushed way beyond my capabilities. Because of this things spiraled out of control and I was subdued by my own cockiness and my I'm untouchable and can do anything and everything attitude. Since then I've mellowed out a lot and like to think of it as exploring a career path. I put some thought into it now and I'm going to stick with MP. If I decide to do something later on I can always make the change. But I wasn't planning on WO school or OCS. I'm keeping them open as options but my primary goal right now for the long run is get back to college after doing some active duty.

Getting this out and talking about it has reaffirmed my gut decision that told me to go with the Army. I think in the long run it will be better.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:28 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
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I can't answer your question about which is right for you, but here is so more information about inferior AF educational opportunies....

One route to commission for for enlisted people who want to go to college full time and earn pay and scholarship money is ASCP:
Quote:
The Airman Scholarship and Commissioning Program (ASCP) offers active duty enlisted personnel the opportunity to earn a commission while completing their bachelor's degree as an Air Force ROTC cadet. Applicants are not authorized to pursue a second bachelors or graduate degree through ASCP.

Those selected separate from the active duty Air Force, join an Air Force ROTC detachment and become a full-time college student. The Air Force provides them with a tuition/fees scholarship of up to $18,000 per year, an annual textbook allowance of $900, and a monthly nontaxable stipend of $250-$500. Students may not pay the difference to attend higher cost schools. This scholarship will be awarded for 2 to 4 years, depending on how many years you have remaining in your bachelor's degree program. Airmen with some or no college credit may apply for the program.
AFROTC - Airman Scholarship & Commissioning Program (ASCP)

Another route, earning more allowances and pay is AECP:
Quote:
Description.

The Airman Education and Commissioning Program (AECP) offers active duty enlisted personnel the opportunity to earn a commission while completing their bachelor's degree. Students will attend OTS upon completion of their bachelor's degree and this will be their source of commissioning. AECP nursing students graduate, take NCLEX, then attend COT.

Those selected for AECP REMAIN ON ACTIVE DUTY and are administratively assigned to an Air Force ROTC detachment. Their duty is to attend school as a full-time college student. In addition to full pay and benefits, AECP cadets are provided with a tuition/fees scholarship of up to $15,000 per year and an annual textbook allowance of $600. Students may not pay the difference to attend higher cost schools. AECP cadets may participate in the program for 1-3 years, depending on their major, prior academic preparation, and age limitations. During the program, they attend school year-round to include summer terms.
AFROTC - Airman Education & Commissioning Program (AECP)

There is another one called POC-ERP
Quote:
The Air Force ROTC (AFROTCAFROTCAir Force Reserve Officer Training Corps ) professional officer course - Early Release Program (poc-erp) offers active duty Air Force enlisted personnel an opportunity for an early release from active duty to enter AFROTCAFROTCAir Force Reserve Officer Training Corps and receive a commission as an Air Force officer.
Members selected for the poc-erp will separate from active duty, sign a contract with AFROTCAFROTCAir Force Reserve Officer Training Corps and become full-time college students. The program is open to undergraduate degrees only. Upon completion of all degree and commissioning requirements, cadets are commissioned as second lieutenants and returned to active duty for a period of at least four years.
U.S. Air Force ROTC - Scholarships - Enlisted Scholarships

There is also the Air Force Institute for Technology, which awards Masters Degrees:
AFIT.Edu / Welcome

There is another option called SOAR:
Quote:
Description.

The Scholarships for Outstanding Airman to ROTC (SOAR) offers active duty enlisted personnel the opportunity to earn a commission while completing their bachelor's degree as an Air Force ROTC cadet.

Those selected separate from the active duty Air Force, join an Air Force ROTC detachment and become a full-time college student. The Air Force provides them with a tuition/fees scholarship of up to $18,000 per year, an annual textbook allowance of $900, and a monthly nontaxable stipend of $250-$500. Students may not pay the difference to attend higher cost schools. This scholarship will be awarded for two to four years, depending on how many years you have remaining in your bachelor's degree program. Airmen with some or no college credit may apply for the program. A limited number of SOAR selects will be offered a scholarship with no tuition cap.

This program is open to students in ANY MAJOR.
AFROTC - Scholarships For Outstanding Airman To ROTC (SOAR)

There is also an educational leave of absence program offered:
Quote:
The Air Force Educational Leave of Absence Program allows Air Force members to attend college, full-time, for up to two years, in order to complete a degree program (bachelors, masters, Phd, etc.), while remaining on active duty. In exchange, the member agrees to extend their active duty commitment. Per Air Force Policy letter 2002-09, dated July 2002, the Air Force replaced the former “Bootstrap” program with the Air Force Educational Leave of Absence. The “Bootstrap” program was replaced because there were several details of this older program that were illegal under the US Code (Title 10, Sec 708). The new program, abbreviated as both AFELA and just ELA, allows for Air Force members to attend an accredited school full-time to obtain a degree of any level (including PhD). The next revision of Air Force Instruction AFI 36-2306, Air Force Education Programs, promises to outline this program in detail.
Air Force Educational Leave of Absence Program

There is also an education deferment program for people who are completing degrees while on active duty and who don't wan to have to move for an assignment.
Quote:
Basic Education Deferment: Air Force military personnel may be authorized an
educational deferment, Assignment Availability Code 52, provided they have completed
enough semester hours towards an associate or higher degree program. They must be able
to complete the degree program through off-duty education within one year.
Disqualifying Factors: Personnel with an established assignment date are not eligible for
educational deferments. Deferments are not given to complete a thesis or research paper.
First-term airmen who are not obligated for a total of six years active service are not
eligible for a 12-month deferment.
Submitting Requests: Each individual must request deferment by letter to Education
Services. A letter signed by a responsible official of a college or university must
accompany the request and must specify: (1) the degree to be awarded, (2) the major and
minor fields of study, (3) opening and closing dates of each term, (4) date degree will be
http://www.offutt55fss.com/amenities/documents/education-faq.pdf (broken link)

We have the only Community College and University that is accredited in the Department of Defense, so you year many college credits for technical schools, leadership training, and other courses in the AF.

Quote:
Welcome to the Community College of the Air Force Web site! Our college is a federally-chartered degree-granting institution that serves the United States Air Force’s enlisted total force. We partner with over 90 affiliated Air Force schools, 82 Education Service Offices located worldwide, and more than 1,500 civilian academic institutions to serve more than 320,000 active, guard, and reserve enlisted personnel, making CCAF the world’s largest community college system. We strive to meet the demands of the Air Force’s increasingly expeditionary environment and at the same time help airmen achieve their educational goals by capitalizing on job-related training and education as part of flexible degree completion programs.

On the following pages you’ll find information about our degree programs, our certification and licensure programs, and our regional accreditation. So whether you’re a prospective or current student, an education counselor, a recruiter, or a commander, we’ve designed this website to provide valuable information about higher education opportunities with CCAF.
USAF Air University: Community College of the Air Force


Not all of these programs will lead you to being a pilot, but all are great opportunities that I wanted to give you information on. Please read them over and let them guide you and help you decide if the Air Force is a good fit for you. Good luck!
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,528,823 times
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I am currently a police officer and a former 0311, which is an Infantryman in the Marine Corps. I'll toss my two cents in here and, take it for what it is worth. First thing I'd like to know is: How old are you? If you are 18-19, I'd go to a junior college for two years then I'd probably enlist in the Air Force. I work with many guys who were Military Police in The Air Force, many were K9 handler's and they are quite good. Just based upon what they have told me, and the guys from the Army, training oppourtunities are wider in the Air Force.

After you enlist, why enlist directly for 4 years? Why not enlist in the reserves and start your military career. Come back after basic/advanced training and work on finishing that degree (by the way, a degree in Criminal Justice is worthless). After you finish your degree, you should be in the 23-24 yr old range, have some life experience about you, and then can make a better, more mature decision about your life.

I should be biased, but I'm not. Don't join the Infantry. Although things are different now, then in 1981, I learned very little that has helped me as a police officer. Discipline? Ok. But, there is little use for a grenade sump in police work.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:25 PM
 
10 posts, read 64,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
Not all of these programs will lead you to being a pilot, but all are great opportunities that I wanted to give you information on. Please read them over and let them guide you and help you decide if the Air Force is a good fit for you. Good luck!
Being a pilot isn't a goal it's something I want to do but I had no idea these program's existed even though I dug around all over for them. Thanks this changes the game now a lot. I think now armed with this I am more inclined to go into the Air Force. I think it would be good for me having been in CAP for 5 years and doing AF related stuff for the time I was in CAP.

Last edited by JoshL; 06-05-2010 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:52 PM
 
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Referring to the various airman commissioning programs:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshL View Post
...but I had no idea these program's existed even though I dug around all over for them. Thanks this changes the game now a lot.
As for the various airman educational programs cited above by DMARIE, I would not enlist counting on this. It's very low yield and there are all kinds of red tape and road blocks.

After considering what you've said, I don't think that you should enlist unless you really have a financial need; or have immediate need for healthcare benefits. You seem to have your heart set on college and becoming an officer. Dig in, transfer to a cheaper (and easier) 4-year college, forget ROTC and get your degree first.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandFever View Post
Referring to the various airman commissioning programs:

As for the various airman educational programs cited above by DMARIE, I would not enlist counting on this. It's very low yield and there are all kinds of red tape and road blocks.

After considering what you've said, I don't think that you should enlist unless you really have a financial need; or have immediate need for healthcare benefits. You seem to have your heart set on college and becoming an officer. Dig in, transfer to a cheaper (and easier) 4-year college, forget ROTC and get your degree first.
Your idea provides just as small of a chance of becoming an officer, and he doesn't get paid while going to college, doesn't get the years of credit that will go towards retirement either. Some of my ideas will even provide him with medical coverage while in college.

Officer acceptance from civilian status at a college is also extremly low right now. In fact, you can google news stories, but the boards that choose who is going to get accepted to be an officer are accepting around 1% of civilian applicants, and the boards have been canceled all year... leading to almost no new officers not coming from the Academy, Dental, Medical, or Law School.


But I AM not an officer recruiter... and things could be DIFFERENT from what the news is reporting.

He should talk to an officer recruiter and find out if he goes to college on his own, how will his chances look, and what can he do to up his chances. I know a guy, 4.0 in Aerospace Engineering, held leadership in the student body, volunteered in the community, with a letter of recommendation from a Congressman, who could NOT come in as an officer. Too many other people had better packages, or the AF just didn't need him. He is in tech school right now, enlisted. He has student loans, and is 4 years behind on gaining his retirement benefits, and will still have to apply through the enlisted-officer routes.

Anything is a risk- nothing is a guarentee. At least my ways give him the opportunity to have more benefits, sooner retirement, steady income, and he can start serving his country now...


But this is just MY opinion. I am by no means an expert.

However, I will agree with you... my routes are not easy, you have to be stellar, and there are no guarentees... but the same risks apply to going to college first.
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:51 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,129 posts, read 38,859,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandFever View Post
You seem to have your heart set on college and becoming an officer. Dig in, transfer to a cheaper (and easier) 4-year college, forget ROTC and get your degree first.
The Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) is a college-based, officer commissioning program designed as a college elective that focuses on leadership development, problem solving, strategic planning, and professional ethics. The U.S. Armed Forces and a number of other national militaries, have ROTC programs. ROTC produces officers in all branches of the U.S. Armed Forces except the U.S. Coast Guard. ROTC graduates constitute 56 percent of U.S. Army, 11 percent of U.S. Marine Corps, 20 percent of U.S. Navy, and 41 percent of U.S. Air Force officers, for a combined 39 percent of all active duty officers in the Department of Defense. With the exception of the U.S. Coast Guard, each of the U.S. Armed Forces offer competitive, merit-based scholarships to ROTC students, often covering full tuition for college in exchange for extended periods of active military service.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:29 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
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ROTC Scholarships are awarded, on average, to people in the top 12% of their class, with at least a 3.77GPA, with an SAT of 1260 or an ACT of 27. To be eligible for scholarship consideration, you must have an SAT composite of 1100 (Math and Verbal portion only) or ACT composite of 24, attain a cumulative GPA of 3.0 or higher and have a class ranking in the top 40%. The majority of scholarship recipients have also completed some advanced placement and honors courses.

You have to adhere to strict AF Weight standards and must be able to pass the AF Fitness test. You can't have a refractive error in your eyes of over +/- 8.00.

You have to take a medical exam and be qualified for AF Commission.

Scholarships are usually only awarded for these degrees: Architecture, Chemistry, Computer Science, Mathematics, Physics, Operations Research, Aeronautical Engineering, Aerospace Engineering, Astronautical Engineering, Architectural Engineering, Civil Engineering, Computer Engineering, Environmental Engineering, Meteorology/Atmospheric Sciences, Electrical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering. " In each scholarship cycle, we offer roughly 2,000-plus scholarships across the nation. We strongly urge you to carefully consider the choices you list for an academic major on this application. You may list up to three majors, but you should only list those you will be willing to pursue. You should also ensure the major you want to pursue is offered by the school you want to attend." So basically, if you pick majors that the AF doesn't need- no scholarship.

U.S. Air Force ROTC - Help Center - FAQs - Scholarships
U.S. Air Force ROTC - Admissions - Requirements & Standards - General Requirements

Scholarship does not mean commission.
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