8th highest poverty rate (Milwaukee, Grafton: environment, travel, jobs)

[EnjoyEP]

One major problem though - that goes beyond "white flight" - is that in the city of Milwaukee itself, there are not a lot of affordable, nice middle class neighborhoods. Either the neighborhoods are largely extremely expensive / unaffordable (East Side, Downtown, 3rd Ward, etc.) or are areas that young families would not live in due to high crime rates, etc. There are some areas still potentially - the far, far northwest side, the areas around Miller Park, the Washington Heights - but by and large, the market has become either too expensive for middle class families - or, too inexpensive (eg: high crime rates, etc.) - for middle class families.

I just bought a house in Greendale - in Milwaukee Co., only minutes from Milwaukee. I would've potentially bought my house in Milwaukee instead if there was a great deal of decent, middle class neighborhoods. However, there just aren't any out there. I wouldn't term my purchase a "white flight" to the suburbs...I would just term it really the only type choice that made any real sense.

[43north87west]

I see where you're going. I'm not avoiding the discussion of corruption, I just find the social vs. corporate welfare discussions as different in terms of the politics, the beneficiaries of each, and the people who support each. As for issue of misuse... we could spend weeks listing misuse of government funds or funding. I suspect a corporate welfare discussion would be a popular one too. Milwaukee seems to be good at that also.

... But let's go back to welfare/W-2. The W-2 system is great because it makes people work (those who are able, I am OK with those who aren't, not working). I like that part of the system, I don't like people who don't help themselves. But W-2 stinks because it costs just as much as writing checks to people did, which in my opinion is almost as big of a waste of money. And it doesn't put people in better shape socioeconomically speaking, so it isn't really helping them out. In fact in many cases it is worse, so what does it accomplish? Looks good on paper, makes good numbers, shows that 80% of the former recipients of welfare dollars now work for part or most of their income. Great. I don't think it is furthering peoples' lives, but I don't think that adding dollars will fix the problem. I'm doubtful that putting the burden on already-overburdened taxpayers to increase funding for welfare, is going to correct anything in the first place. That's how it got blown out of proportion initially.

Having said all of that, my state of residence is Arizona, which has a lower tax burden. But I still reside part time in this state, and that could change depending on a number of factors, so I still have concerns about the governing of the welfare problems. I don't think the state government has handled welfare appropriately, and question whether giving them more money to throw around will result in a successful outcome.

[brewtown12]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

Put an end to:
-rampant racial discrimination in the labor market

Ever thought about that itsy bitsy little fact everyone seems to leave out?

[adam76]

Originally Posted by brewtown12

Ever thought about that itsy bitsy little fact everyone seems to leave out?

Gee here I thought businesses stayed away from the inner city because of high crime and lack of qualified workers. Or is there rampant racism at MPS / MATC etc that I am unaware of?

For the sake of argument lets say racism exists at some businesses that are hiring. Is that an excuse not to better yourself? Or is every single business, school and tech school racist?

I sometimes get the feeling that there are some out there who want money, an education and a job handed to them on a silver platter.

[brewtown12]

Originally Posted by adam76

Gee here I thought businesses stayed away from the inner city because of high crime and lack of qualified workers. Or is there rampant racism at MPS / MATC etc that I am unaware of?

For the sake of argument lets say racism exists at some businesses that are hiring. Is that an excuse not to better yourself? Or is every single business, school and tech school racist?

I sometimes get the feeling that there are some out there who want money, an education and a job handed to them on a silver platter.

Its not an argument,just dealing with the facts.

Study Shows How Deeply Black Men Face Discrimination In Hiring

This is a factor in the high poverty situation in Milwaukee.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by brewtown12

Its not an argument,just dealing with the facts.

Study Shows How Deeply Black Men Face Discrimination In Hiring

This is a factor in the high poverty situation in Milwaukee.

I would hardly qualify this article or this study as "fact"...

People forget that in today's business class, the ulmighty dollar takes precedence. Employers will hire whoever or whatever gives them an opportunity to run a profitable business...they may be the most racist s*bs in the world, but they'll hire an illegal immigrant from Mexico in a heartbeat if it helps their bottom line.

I don't doubt for a second that - regrettably - blacks have missed out on jobs in Milwaukee in the '90s and '00s due to racist undertones. I also know with certainty that whites have missed out on jobs in Milwaukee for the same reasons. I am certain the same could be said of Hispanics. However, this just certainly is not a primary reason any more in any way that poverty can really be staked to.

[brewtown12]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

I would hardly qualify this article or this study as "fact"...

People forget that in today's business class, the ulmighty dollar takes precedence. Employers will hire whoever or whatever gives them an opportunity to run a profitable business...they may be the most racist s*bs in the world, but they'll hire an illegal immigrant from Mexico in a heartbeat if it helps their bottom line.

I don't doubt for a second that - regrettably - blacks have missed out on jobs in Milwaukee in the '90s and '00s due to racist undertones. I also know with certainty that whites have missed out on jobs in Milwaukee for the same reasons. I am certain the same could be said of Hispanics. However, this just certainly is not a primary reason any more in any way that poverty can really be staked to.

I believe it to be fact,as a black man from Milwaukee.I see no reason whatsoever to doubt it.Most other black men would also agree.Of coarse,some people(mostly whites) will doubt or refuse to believe it.This actually keeps the system in place,for someone who refuses to accept a fact will do nothing to change it.Alot of people dont want to change it,or dont care if it changes,as long as its not thier community being affected by it.

In my opinion,it is a primary reason for much of the poverty within my community.Im not saying there arent other factors but this is the main thing.I dont see how you cant see the connection between mass discrimination in jobs and poverty.


jobs=money=prosperity
no job/low paying job=poverty

[Miss_Christmas]

Originally Posted by brewtown12

I believe it to be fact,as a black man from Milwaukee.I see no reason whatsoever to doubt it.Most other black men would also agree.Of coarse,some people(mostly whites) will doubt or refuse to believe it.This actually keeps the system in place,for someone who refuses to accept a fact will do nothing to change it.Alot of people dont want to change it,or dont care if it changes,as long as its not thier community being affected by it.

In my opinion,it is a primary reason for much of the poverty within my community.Im not saying there arent other factors but this is the main thing.I dont see how you cant see the connection between mass discrimination in jobs and poverty.


jobs=money=prosperity
no job/low paying job=poverty

Very True!!!

[zz4guy]

It's simple - hand out concealed carry permits to NON-CRIMINALS and cut proptery, sales and income taxes by 50% or more.

Crime will go down and business will move in... in 5 years you wont recognize the city

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Nuclear_Art

The issue that you seem to be avoiding is that for any program you will have corruption and people abusing the system. Was the fact that people abused welfare enough to get rid of the program? Abuse of the system happens just as much in corporate welfare which is why I did mention it. Obviously those abuses and corruption were never enough to abolish it as the welfare system was abolished.

Putting people on "permanent" welfare is almost as bad as having NO welfare system at all. Programs like school lunch etc. are great but leaving people on a dole with no possibility of recovery is cruel.

I support job training, programs that supplement and support the working poor etc. and that do not incent people to have more children.

These comments are unrelated to what OTHER monies the FEDERAL government is spending on military, corporate tax breaks etc etc etc. which in the context of a STATE GOVERNMENTS welfare programs are smoke screen type arguments.

P.S. I find it ironic to complain of a lack of jobs and complain about corporate welfare at the state level. Maybe Wisconsin should tax corporations 100% and give the money to the poor, that will fix everything and it serves those greedy fat cats right. (Roll forward 10 years when unemployment in Wisconsin is 50% and the state's tax revenues have dropped drastically)

Who do you think generates the taxes in the state for Wisconsin? Churches? Maybe schools or the government workers? Stop and think about this.