Public sector residency requirements

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by HyperionGap

Arguments with people from Norcal can get a little heated and there is a general dislike for New Yorkers, but I've never heard it just out of the blue like I've seen people in Milwaukee lambast people from Illinois.

MA/NH/ME makes WI/IL rivalry look like amateur night. Google "mass holes" but one word. Similar situation to WI/IL. Vacationers from the bigger population centers flock to the nice vacation spots in neighboring states, rivalry ensues, etc.

Wisconsin and Illinois have the sports rivalry going too, but that's more good natured (IMO).

We don't have too much rivalry in Arizona. Areas like Prescott have more anti-Californian sentiment than places like Phoenix, Tucson, Las Vegas, etc. There is so much migration into the western states that half the people are from somewhere else to begin with.

[♥Puddles♥]

Originally Posted by HyperionGap

That's pretty vague... Could you please show me what I said and then explain what is offensive about it because I honestly don't know.


I thought you would like that, sweetie.

Chicago #6 most miserable city in the U.S. in 2010
#6 Chicago, Ill. - In Photos: America's Most Miserable Cities - Forbes

Chicago #4 most miserable city in the U.S. in 2013
#4 Chicago, Ill. - In Photos: America's Most Miserable Cities 2013 - Forbes

Sounds like your violent crime is pretty nice over there too.
Chicago Passes NY as Murder Capitol of U.S.

That's rough, looks like things are going from bad to worse. You guys still have breathing room though before dropping to #1, I don't think you could overtake Flint or Detroit .

Ok, why would anyone move to a someplace just to "pick on" it. I could easily do that while sipping on a nice fruity drink with an umbrella in it from the shores of Maui. You really are batsh*t crazy.

Since you seem quite keen to hear my life story, I'll give you a brief synopsis. Originally I chose to go to WashU in St. Louis because it's a very good school, and I wanted to expand my horizons beyond California.
WHile at WashU together my girlfriend and I decided that of the places she got accepted for medical school, the best fit for us both would be in Milwaukee (MCW). So now I have been here for 3 years.

You're crazy. How am I supposed to know why you so much better than the simpletons that you think Midwestern people are?????? Maybe it makes you feel better to **** all over everyone? How am I supposed to know what your deal is with midwest people or why you take out aggression on Chicago? OMG.

Sent from my iPhone 5

[43north87west]

If we can put the Chicago vs. Milwaukee pissing match aside and get back to the discussion, the issues you mentioned with Chicago aren't unlike some of the issues that Milwaukee has, for probably the very same reasons.

Which hopefully brings us back to the OP. Some of the concerns that I and others have raised are about the socioeconomic factors that may be impacted by the lifting of the residency requirement. Chicago has a residency requirement and Milwaukee doesn't anymore. The concerns that a few of us have, are related to a further decay of the income base as a result, possibly fueling that problem.

[HyperionGap]

Yeah I'll stop, Puddles already made my day with her last post.

Back on topic:
Here's an update to the situation. Milwaukee has barred anyone who leaves the city from getting pay raises - with the exception of "elected officials or employees represented by the Milwaukee Police Supervisors' Association, the Milwaukee Police Association or the Milwaukee Professional Firefighters Association Local 215." That definitely doesn't seem equitable.

City to block raises for many public workers who leave Milwaukee

When I was listing reasons why people would want to leave Milwaukee and relocate elsewhere and couldn't because of the residency requirement you said they were all red herrings and non-factors. If that is true, I just don't think that lifting the residency requirement is going to have an overly dramatic effect on the local economy. I will agree that some people will leave if you lift the residency requirement. The dilemma is, is the loss of tax base worth it worth more freedom and less government intervention. You would, no and any tax base lost is not worth that cost. I would say maybe- it depends on the amount of people leaving/ the economic impact. I personally don't think it would be that drastic, however, Epidonax did mention that a residency change really hurt Buffalo and Minneapolis and Detroit but he didn't supply any evidence to support that claim, so I'm not convinced.

[Empidonax]

Here's one discussion about lifting the RR in which Minneapolis and Detroit are mentioned:

The Political Environment: City Of Milwaukee Fact Sheet On Residency

In the case of Minneapolis, 70% of city employees now live outside the city. From an economic standpoint, that isn't necessarily bad if the people (and $$) who left were replaced by equal amounts of people (and $$). Perhaps this happened, but I doubt all sorts of people with equivalent salaries were waiting for city employees to leave the city before moving in. Considering at least some Mpls city employees sold their houses at a loss, and considering others would rent their houses because selling would be tough, my understanding is that this would lead to less $$ in the neighborhoods affected.

[HyperionGap]

"The City Service Commission reviews and approves temporary residency waivers for hardship. In the past 10 years, it has granted all 106 requests it has received."

"In 1997, the City implemented a hardship waiver of the residency requirement for employees whose spouses are subject to residency in other jurisdictions. Only 2 have since been requested and issued by the Fire and Police Commission and none by the City Service Commission."

Seems reasonable enough.

A comment I thought was interesting:
"Seems difficult to argue that the residency requirement has made it both easy to recruit people, and that people will want to leave."
That's been one of the points I've been bringing up and hasn't really been addressed.

"Minneapolis repealed in 1999, 70% now live outside the city." - I'm not sure if that just refers to teachers or all public sector employees and I would be curious as to the general population trend during this time. -- Well this is complete crap, I was going to see what happened with Minneapolis' population from 2000 to 2013, but due to the government shut down, the census website is down. What a joke


I will say that I disagree with the state trying to overturn Milwaukee's choice to have a residency requirement whether I support it or not. Clearly, the people in Milwaukee haven't had a problem with it for 70 years so I don't really see the need for the state to stick it's nose in.

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by HyperionGap

When I was listing reasons why people would want to leave Milwaukee and relocate elsewhere and couldn't because of the residency requirement you said they were all red herrings and non-factors.

It's possible that I went overboard. I'm far from perfect. I was sitting in the KLM Crown lounge stewing about a cancelled flight, and irritated at the governor of WI appearing to do a favor for the people who he just let out of their residency requirement. And to make matters worse, I just got home from another trip tonight, and I'm just friggin' tired at this point.

Originally Posted by HyperionGap

If that is true, I just don't think that lifting the residency requirement is going to have an overly dramatic effect on the local economy.

I don't know if it will be dramatic either, but I don't see anything per se wrong about the requirement. My opinion only.

Originally Posted by HyperionGap

I will agree that some people will leave if you lift the residency requirement. The dilemma is, is the loss of tax base worth it worth more freedom and less government intervention. You would, no and any tax base lost is not worth that cost. I would say maybe- it depends on the amount of people leaving/ the economic impact. I personally don't think it would be that drastic, however, Epidonax did mention that a residency change really hurt Buffalo and Minneapolis and Detroit but he didn't supply any evidence to support that claim, so I'm not convinced.

I don't know whether there is any hard evidence either, but with a 70% departure rate in Minneapolis, I am not hopeful. Minneapolis is a very nice city; maybe it has had a huge influx of wealthy people. If so, I can only hope for the same in Milwaukee.