Get Ready for Another Brain Drain? (Milwaukee, Madison: colleges, subsidized, closing)

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Why should people move on??? Because society does NOT have an obligation to keep subsidizing people who are content to never produce that's why.

I despise elitists who think they are entitled to the wealth produced from the labor of others.

Like the elitist executives who get rich off of low-paid workers and fake "market" pricing? Oh, no, I suppose you didn't mean it that way.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by TRlaura

As much as I like Walker, I thought the measly 300M in cuts to the UW system was a joke. It should have been at least double that. Anyone that takes the time to read through their budget can find at least 25% waste.

Just like the measly contributions he asked the public workers to start paying. It was a good start but now it's time for a reality check and make them pay their fair share like the rest of us. And don't get me started on the cops and firefighters......

I propose they start with closing UW-Manitowoc, which is near Two Rivers.

[adele115]

Many UW campuses already have salaries that are below comparable schools in other states.
Professors are doing RESEARCH as well as classroom teaching. Research and scholarly writing are refined, learned skills that a) bring in grant money to the state, b) attract start up businesses, c) contribute to the body of knowledge of given field, d) are taught via a mentoring relationship with graduate students. If UW guts the system, the best people will seek out employment in lateral schools (U of IL, U of MI, etc.). So, all the people who think that, after years of cuts and belt tightening, the UW system still has too much fat and those lazy profs should teach another section….be careful what you wish for….

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by adele115

Many UW campuses already have salaries that are below comparable schools in other states.
Professors are doing RESEARCH as well as classroom teaching. Research and scholarly writing are refined, learned skills that a) bring in grant money to the state, b) attract start up businesses, c) contribute to the body of knowledge of given field, d) are taught via a mentoring relationship with graduate students. If UW guts the system, the best people will seek out employment in lateral schools (U of IL, U of MI, etc.). So, all the people who think that, after years of cuts and belt tightening, the UW system still has too much fat and those lazy profs should teach another section….be careful what you wish for….

Unfortunately, a lot of these people want the state to be more like Montana or West Virginia, but instead of moving to those places, they're working to dismantle some of the most productive and foundational things about Wisconsin. A lot of these people also don't have a strong public conscience--they'd like to see most everything privatized and, in many cases, turned over to churches. A lot of them whimper about the "elitism" of the public workers and whatnot, but they actually form their own brand of elitism.

[Milwaukee City]

Jim Doyle cut 250 million right off the bat when he came in but what he did do that Walker didn't do was allow UW to raise tuition to off-set the cost therefore passing the cuts right onto students, and when Doyle did this nobody said a thing 6 months later when tuition went up again nobody connected the dots. Also keep in mind Walker is basically giving them the key to the Porsche by giving them full autonomy something the regents wanted real bad forever and walker is giving it to them. So after the tuition freeze is up it's all up to the UW how much they want to charge for school and other fees without the states input, so if tuition jumps 15% in 5 years you can blame the regents not the state. Also Walker is only cutting the state's portion of funding not the overall funding for the UW, so it's not 300 million of the entire budget, it's 300million of the states share.

Just like Act 10 people will scream and cry but in the end chicken little will not come home to roost. Besides just think about it do you really think Scott Walker who is running for president would really propose something that wasn't going to work and torpedo his own chances, no they ran the numbers they talked to political advisers, this is a winning issue for him and he knows it that why it is coming out right now. You need a issue to throw your fellow republican voters some red meat and gain national attention and he knows how it will play out in the media and he knows it will only help his presidential aspirations. You don't take a risk on 50/50 it might working when you are running for president, you only go bold when you know you can win on an issue.

Asking the professors to work a little more is not the end of the world, I remember my first two years at UWM, I had TA's for every class and the professor was only there in the morning then left. Also remember Wisconsin's budget is a biannual budget not annual.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

Jim Doyle cut 250 million right off the bat when he came in but what he did do that Walker didn't do was allow UW to raise tuition to off-set the cost therefore passing the cuts right onto students, and when Doyle did this nobody said a thing 6 months later when tuition went up again nobody connected the dots. Also keep in mind Walker is basically giving them the key to the Porsche by giving them full autonomy something the regents wanted real bad forever and walker is giving it to them. So after the tuition freeze is up it's all up to the UW how much they want to charge for school and other fees without the states input, so if tuition jumps 15% in 5 years you can blame the regents not the state. Also Walker is only cutting the state's portion of funding not the overall funding for the UW, so it's not 300 million of the entire budget, it's 300million of the states share.

In some ways, this is the key: severe reduction of state funding over the next two years with no allowance for UW officials to compensate by raising tuition. Yes, the cost would be passed on to the students, but the increase would be higher at some schools (like Madison) and lower at others (like the 2-yr colleges). And, don't forget that many students have the option of attending tech schools for the first two years and then transferring to UW, so there's another layer of competition.

Just like Act 10 people will scream and cry but in the end chicken little will not come home to roost. Besides just think about it do you really think Scott Walker who is running for president would really propose something that wasn't going to work and torpedo his own chances, no they ran the numbers they talked to political advisers, this is a winning issue for him and he knows it that why it is coming out right now.

By the time the reckoning comes, he'd already be president.

He and his advisors must be very confident in Wisconsin's economy to propose over a billion dollars in borrowing for roads. If thousands of new jobs aren't created (we're still waiting) to pay for it, we'll all be stuck with the bill.

Also, don't forget that his budget proposal involves a lot of posturing. No one expects all of his recommendations to pass in their current form. Similarly, the outcry against the budget also involves posturing. Though the proposed cuts to UW could really happen and be quite devastating, there's a sense that the amount of cuts could be slimmed somewhat, making the impact less horrible.

You need a issue to throw your fellow republican voters some red meat and gain national attention and he knows how it will play out in the media and he knows it will only help his presidential aspirations. You don't take a risk on 50/50 it might working when you are running for president, you only go bold when you know you can win on an issue.

True, though he probably expects the legislature to tinker significantly with some of his ideas, thus giving him the chance to look bold without actually seeing some of the more destructive ideas go through.

Asking the professors to work a little more is not the end of the world, I remember my first two years at UWM, I had TA's for every class and the professor was only there in the morning then left. Also remember Wisconsin's budget is a biannual budget not annual.

Most UW schools already have their profs teaching full loads, so the teaching issue here only really applies to profs at Madison, UWM, and a few other places like Green Bay. For the top-tier research universities, including other major public universities, profs typically teach two classes per term. Scientists and others with grants typically get a course release, because their grant more than pays for it.

If profs at Madison and UWM are required to teach more, many would eventually leave for more competitive jobs elsewhere, and it would be extremely difficult to hire the highest caliber of new profs. Also, in these times, many of the departing profs would be replaced with less expensive lecturers. This would lower the research power of the schools considerably, and they would no longer have the impact and importance that they currently have. Maybe this isn't such a problem for many people, as not all states have or need to have major research universities. But this sort of change would pretty much take away the major reason why students want to attend these universities in the first place. Madison and, to an extent, UWM are considered top research schools for a reason. If you lower the research element, you pretty much have the University of Northern Iowa--not a bad school in its own right, and certainly not out of the research game, but nowhere near a top-tier school in that area.

TAs and lecturers are increasingly used to teach lower-level classes (usually sections of a course, not the lecture itself) because it's too expensive to hire profs, especially at research schools like Madison. I don't know which UW school you attended, but most don't have many TAs because most don't have many grad programs.

If your profs left after teaching, it's probably because they can get more done away from the office. Many profs are scholars, and when they're not meeting with students or doing administrative/committee work, they do scholarly things (read, write, grade papers, prepare slides, etc.) for classes, for research, and for their advisees. This, for most, requires a quiet environment, like a lab or the library or their own study at home, where they can concentrate.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by thefragile

It's always the people who have never gone to college or dropped out that have such bitterness towards education.

This is the most insightful post in the entire discussion.

When we drop all the political posturing, the education discussion across the country gets down to this. People cheer the great athletes, the "rich and famous", yet seem to dislike, if not despise those who are educated. You can go to any forum and if the subject of college comes up, there are, without fail, those who can't wait to jump in to point out the friend of a friend they knew who was an "educated idiot" or the self made man. They focus on the exceptions to "prove" their point.

[MassVt]

Just out of curiosity, I checked out the tuition rates for a UW-Madison, in-state student.

Approx. 10K/year. Not bad at all, and if you can find some way of getting a part-time job, and a apartment with several roommates, you might be able to escape witbout too much economic damage...

I won't let the UW system( or any college, for that matter) off the hook entirely. They do offer many degree programs of very dubious value, especially when considering the debts student must pay off later. But Wisconsin has a real gem here--a relatively affordable school, with a strong reputation, available to all without the exhorbitant cost of a private school. The state should absolutely do all it can to retain its value.

[craptacular]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Nope. Boston is just as cold and it suffers no brain drain. In fact, it is a destination.

Not saying it isn't an issue at all, but it can be overcome by investing in an vibrant innovation economy through higher education and a start up infrastructure.

Gov. Walker would probably love Boston in this regard. Almost every one of its institutions of higher learning, and all of the well-known ones (BU, BC, Harvard, MIT, Northeastern, Tufts) are private and expensive.

[Merkin]

UW screwed themselves when they hid a Billion dollar slush fund.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...-slush-fund-i/

The school pocketed $5000 per student in slush fund, which is about a semester of tuition.