What's to hate about Brown Deer,WI (Milwaukee, Waukesha: apartment complex, crime)

[Vipre77]

Weee! Another shooting, literally right behind my house... My wife had to be at work at 6AM today, so she got up around 4:30AM to get ready for work. About 4:45, we heard what we thought were gunshots that sounded like they were in our backyard. I thought it was my wife making noise while getting ready for work. She came in the bedroom and said she thought she heard gunshots. Turns out, that's exactly what they were. Great.

My wife and I bought our first house here in Brown Deer in Oct. 2005. We previously had an apartment at 84th & Oklahoma for 1.5 years. I lived aparments at Brookfield Hills Golf Course and Monterey Apartments in Waukesha before that between 2000-2004. My experience / proximity to crimes happening around me here in Brown Deer has only been surpassed by my years living downtown while attending MSOE.

Now, our house here in Brown Deer is in an area considered by most here to be in "the good part of town." I live directly across the street from BD Middle School. There's been any number of shootings/beatings/etc. in our immediate neighborhood since moving here. Loud, thumping stereos at all hours of the day that shake my windows as the ghetto cruisers roll down 60th St. behind my house. My wooden fence is constantly damaged by passers-by, presumably kids walking to and from school. Garbage constantly thrown over the fence in to my yard. Stuff from kids lunches like juice boxes, potato chip bags, soda cans/bottles, etc. Students cutting through my yard and my neighbors' yards on their way to school. Hello?! My yard is fenced for a reason numb-nuts! Sometimes they hop my neighbors short picket fence. During the school year, there are police cars at the school across the street from my house almost every other day, I would say. And this is the Middle School! Where I went to school, I can probably count on one hand the number of times police were called to my school during my entire academic career (K-12 and college), Officer Friendly visits notwithstanding...

They shut down Northridge Mall a few years back because of the growing crime problem. Honestly, I don't see that it's really changed anything... When I was in college in the late 90's, we used to come out here from downtown Milwaukee to shop at the mall and never had any complaints then. Now? There's no reason at all to come out here unless you live here. I'd rather go to Bayshore to shop. People can throw around all the crime statistics they want, but in my experience in one of the "good" parts of BD, it doesn't hold a candle to any of the 3 places I lived before this place. And the taxes? I'm paying $4K a year in property taxes on a 50+ year old single-story ranch home at around 1100 sq. ft. with 1.5 bath. And the baths look more like converted closets than bathrooms, they are so tiny. In my "full" bath, you have to stand in a certain spot beside the toilet in order to close the door behind you.

The only reason we moved here in the first place is because we got a good price on the house. The previous owners were divorcing and needed to get rid of the house. That and the people next door work with my wife, so we already knew the neighbors before we even bought the place. Our plan was to live here for around 5 years and move on. With the housing market being down, we're afraid we'll lose money on the deal. But this is increasingly not a neighborhood I want to raise our children in, nor send my children to the schools here even though it's only across the street from home. My experiences in Waukesha and Brookfield were tenfold better.

[Vipre77]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

All of this means something to me because Milwaukee is my father's hometown, born and raised. I think he would be happy to hear that Milwaukee's violent crime rate has dropped recently and that Brown Deer is a nice place to live. He is thinking about returning to Milwaukee to retire. I think Brown Deer would be a good place for him to live. I have sometimes thought about moving to Milwaukee because I often imagine myself as a businessman participating in a revival of jobs and rebuilding(as well as reviving the rest of the "Rust Belt region".
I think the dated strip mall could use some new stores. One plan I have thought of in my head is if there was an incentive to starting a small business like a coffee shop.
A barbershop does sound nice. I have only had my hair cut at a barbershop twice in my life. One of those times was when I was a baby on summer vacation in Milwaukee.
The 70's era apartments, well , I think they need to be rebuilt because apartments get old fast. My worry is for the residents who live the apartments and where they would live in the time being if the apartments were to be renovated(or demolished in favor for new apartment buildings).
Public library nearby is very helpful to me because I like to read books.
Now clean streets, that is something that means alot to me. I love it when a place is clean. Where I live,(metro Atlanta), littering is considered a common practice and I get very irritated when I see garbage everywhere, and littering occurs in higher income areas too, so clean streets are something I like.

Clean streets? Yes, I suppose they are clean enough. I vehemently disagree with Ron's sentiment that the roads here are smooth, though. I bought a brand new 2007 Mazda3 and only 3 months later I needed a front-end alignment and I now have to two bent rims and a malfunctioning Tire Pressure Monitoring System as a result of the HUGE potholes on Brown Deer and Good Hope Roads. The village wants me to point at a specific pothole that caused the damage. I say, "Take your pick, the entire road is one huge pothole". My local Mazda dealer quoted me $1800 to fix it. I could file an insurance claim, but I'd still have to pay the $500 deductible on it. I'd rather put air in my tires every few weeks than pay that since the village won't cover the damages. Thank you village of Brown Deer! I needed that!

[Ron Burgundy]

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Weee! Another shooting, literally right behind my house... My wife had to be at work at 6AM today, so she got up around 4:30AM to get ready for work. About 4:45, we heard what we thought were gunshots that sounded like they were in our backyard. I thought it was my wife making noise while getting ready for work. She came in the bedroom and said she thought she heard gunshots. Turns out, that's exactly what they were. Great.

Apparently I live about 4 blocks west of you. Did the police show up? I'm a light sleeper and I honestly didn't hear anything. I'm not discounting that it happened, just want some more information. And you say "another shooting", as if this were a daily or ordinary occurrence. That's not the case and you know it.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Now, our house here in Brown Deer is in an area considered by most here to be in "the good part of town."

Again, I live 4 blocks west of you. It's nice and good enough, but I wouldn't exactly consider it "the good part of town" relative to the newer construction north of Brown Deer Road. That's not necessarily a negative reflection on the area in which we live in, just what I consider to be an accurate comparison to elsewhere in the village.


Now I'm going to be a bit snarky because I'm in the mood and I think you can handle it. My apologies if any of this offends you.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

I live directly across the street from BD Middle School. There's been any number of shootings/beatings/etc. in our immediate neighborhood since moving here.

And yet none of this ever makes the police blotter or the papers. Must be another one of those liberal media conspiracies.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Loud, thumping stereos at all hours of the day that shake my windows as the ghetto cruisers roll down 60th St. behind my house.

Another old curmudgeon! Welcome to the party! Let's see if we can do something about these damn these youngsters with their loud rap music that I keep reading so much about...

Originally Posted by Vipre77

My wooden fence is constantly damaged by passers-by, presumably kids walking to and from school.

Only in Brown Deer...

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Garbage constantly thrown over the fence in to my yard. Stuff from kids lunches like juice boxes, potato chip bags, soda cans/bottles, etc.

Littering never happens anywhere else, it's tough for all of us living in our own communal garbage dump...

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Students cutting through my yard and my neighbors' yards on their way to school. Hello?! My yard is fenced for a reason numb-nuts! Sometimes they hop my neighbors short picket fence.

Dude, this I agree with. It sucks. But you're in a direct path to the school from a relatively enclosed neighborhood. Again, this would happen no matter where you live.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

During the school year, there are police cars at the school across the street from my house almost every other day, I would say. And this is the Middle School! Where I went to school, I can probably count on one hand the number of times police were called to my school during my entire academic career (K-12 and college), Officer Friendly visits notwithstanding...

You are quite the upstanding citizen with your neighborhood watch. My work situation provides me the opportunity to keep an eye out myself, so I can help you out this fall. I'm sure the entire school is just Lord of the Flies level anarchy and their average test scores while at the same time taking in numerous MPS students from broken homes is just a ruse. We know the truth...

Originally Posted by Vipre77

They shut down Northridge Mall a few years back because of the growing crime problem. Honestly, I don't see that it's really changed anything... When I was in college in the late 90's, we used to come out here from downtown Milwaukee to shop at the mall and never had any complaints then. Now? There's no reason at all to come out here unless you live here. I'd rather go to Bayshore to shop.

Now here's a shocker. You'd rather go to Bayshore to shop rather than a dead mall that lacks any comparable stores. Hey, me too!

But seriously, the crime problem at "Granville Station" is relatively non-existent. I've never had an issue before or after dark with hooliganism, thuggery, and the like. You're looking for something that's not there. I remember reading about one random incident at the Andy's on 81st & BD occurring there in the last year and that was it. The Pick 'n Save just sucks because it's Pick 'n Save, not because it's at Northridge. No complaints here for Menards, though.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

People can throw around all the crime statistics they want, but in my experience in one of the "good" parts of BD, it doesn't hold a candle to any of the 3 places I lived before this place.

Okay, back to reality. Crime statistics are normalized for comparison. This is much more accurate and telling than anecdotal (mis)rememberances for that reason. You honestly think 84th & Oklahoma is safer? I would never considerate it "unsafe", but if you compare the normalized rates for Brown Deer and West Allis (if 84th & OK isn't Stallis, it's close enough...) you'll come to a different conclusion. Waukesha and Brookfield have lower rates, but they're further removed from the scrum of the city and also have a less welcoming attitude towards outsiders. There's good and bad that comes with that approach.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

And the taxes? I'm paying $4K a year in property taxes on a 50+ year old single-story ranch home at around 1100 sq. ft. with 1.5 bath. And the baths look more like converted closets than bathrooms, they are so tiny. In my "full" bath, you have to stand in a certain spot beside the toilet in order to close the door behind you.

Taxes are comparable throughout the county. It sucks, but this is not a complaint that is specific and unique to the village. Regarding the baths, sorry you weren't able to notice these things before buying.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

The only reason we moved here in the first place is because we got a good price on the house. The previous owners were divorcing and needed to get rid of the house. That and the people next door work with my wife, so we already knew the neighbors before we even bought the place. Our plan was to live here for around 5 years and move on. With the housing market being down, we're afraid we'll lose money on the deal.

Seriously dude, good luck. I won't be able to stay in my house forever due to a growing family, so I can empathize.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

But this is increasingly not a neighborhood I want to raise our children in, nor send my children to the schools here even though it's only across the street from home.

Outside of unverifiable claims of "shootings/beatings/etc", you listed mere annoyances than anything drastic and lifechanging. My advice would be to try and keep some perspective.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

My experiences in Waukesha and Brookfield were tenfold better.

And a comparable house in Brookfield will cost tenfold more. Okay, 25%+ minimum. Waukesha, go nuts though. Not my cup of tea.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Clean streets? Yes, I suppose they are clean enough. I vehemently disagree with Ron's sentiment that the roads here are smooth, though.

You're right, I wasn't too clear there. I was referring to Bradley Rd only. Residential sidestreets are in now way NW Milwaukee bad, but most could use a good re-paving. Doing so would definitely raise taxes though. They only have enough in the budget for 4 roads a year. I keep hoping mine's on the list, but it isn't that bad.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

I bought a brand new 2007 Mazda3 and only 3 months later I needed a front-end alignment and I now have to two bent rims and a malfunctioning Tire Pressure Monitoring System as a result of the HUGE potholes on Brown Deer and Good Hope Roads.

Brown Deer Road is a state highway, so I assume the jurisdiction is with the state. That said, I've never had any issues with the part that runs through the village. It was the River Hills part they're currently re-doing that always got me. That section was just terrible. Farther out past 107th St sucks, too. Also, Good Hope is a County Hwy and doesn't touch the city save for the short stretch between 43rd & 51st. Not sure of the relevancy there. The one bad spot I've encountered (eastbound after the Milwaukee River Parkway) is getting addressed with the construction this summer. Is that what you're referring to?

Originally Posted by Vipre77

The village wants me to point at a specific pothole that caused the damage. I say, "Take your pick, the entire road is one huge pothole". My local Mazda dealer quoted me $1800 to fix it. I could file an insurance claim, but I'd still have to pay the $500 deductible on it. I'd rather put air in my tires every few weeks than pay that since the village won't cover the damages. Thank you village of Brown Deer! I needed that!

No offense, but as much as it sucks for you (my first car was a Mazda so i got a bit of a soft spot here), I think this is a perfectly rational response. As a fellow taxpayer, I'm glad the village isn't willing to subsidize your repairs sigh-unseen. Doing so would open a huge can of worms and again would raise those taxes we all think are too high.


It might seem like I think this place can do no wrong, but that's not the case. I think strides can be made in the school system, property maintenance enforcement and tax control, but it's really not that bad. There are going to be issues no matter where you are, and lots of them are not unique to location. Again, it's all a matter of perspective.

[foreigner2]

I really don't care what you think about "anecdotal" evidence Mr.Burgundy. Could not care less.
My experience speaks for itself , if you don't want to accept that experience. Tough!
The noise is the never ending car stereo barrage . The people responsible don't care and if the cops are not there , then the by laws are not enforced. Last week I was treated to four hours of loud music that drew neighbors from the other end of the block. I don't call the cops anymore , it's a waste of time.

I have lived for years next to an out of control rental property , plain and simple. The police reports were all recorded .

But I shall go a little further this time around. I shall use my camera and put the shots on you tube. The anecdotes will cease to be anecdotes then.

What you think is neither here nor there.

[Ron Burgundy]

You state your isolated incidences like it's some sort of trend when it's clearly not. Good luck with life.

[Vipre77]

Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy

Apparently I live about 4 blocks west of you. Did the police show up? I'm a light sleeper and I honestly didn't hear anything. I'm not discounting that it happened, just want some more information. And you say "another shooting", as if this were a daily or ordinary occurrence. That's not the case and you know it.

Yes, the police showed up. They searched the area between 60th & Dean down to 60th & Bradley for an hour and a half and found nothing. The first of the two shots fired was around 4:45AM. The second was roughly 10 minutes later. The police responded at 5:15. 20 minutes after it occurred. Obviously, those responsible aren't going to wait around 20 minutes for the police to show up.

Shooting - XX N 60TH STR AND W BRADLEY RD, MILWAUKEE, WI - 08/23/2009 05:14 AM

You're right. This isn't an everyday occurance, but it's certainly not the first time it's happened in the 4 years that we've lived here. It's not even the first time this year it's happened. Here's another shots fired incident just a month before.

Shooting - 77XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 07/24/2009 10:58 PM

And an assault & battery that occured same day as the more recent shooting I mentioned.

Assault - 79XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 08/23/2009 08:43 PM

And drug dealing on 8/5 and 8/13.

Arrest - 79XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 08/05/2009 07:39 PM

http://spotcrime.com/crime/5956285-87a84051d19c513c09c5a19d22d92af9

And thefts on 8/14 and 7/19:

Theft - 79XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 08/14/2009 09:45 PM

Theft - 78XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 07/19/2009 08:30 AM

Or maybe some "touble with subject" whatever that means. I'm guessing some kind of domestic disturbance. Got a couple of those, too.

Other - 79XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 07/24/2009 02:19 PM

Other - 79XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 08/21/2009 05:59 PM

Vandalism on 8/5 & 8/28:

Vandalism - 79XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 08/05/2009 10:24 PM

Vandalism - 78XX N 60TH STR, MILWAUKEE, WI - 08/28/2009 05:59 PM

Frankly, if you don't see any of this stuff going on around you, you must be blind. And please, stop with all the head-in-the-sand B.S. about how this is par for the course of living in the city. We should have higher standards for the communities we live in, regardless of the size or proximity to Milwaukee. Instead, you seem to be throwing up your arms and saying, "What are ya gonna do? It's the city. Deal with it." The answer to that question is to demand more from those that live around you. Expect better of them. And expect better of your elected officials.

Again, I live 4 blocks west of you. It's nice and good enough, but I wouldn't exactly consider it "the good part of town" relative to the newer construction north of Brown Deer Road. That's not necessarily a negative reflection on the area in which we live in, just what I consider to be an accurate comparison to elsewhere in the village.


Now I'm going to be a bit snarky because I'm in the mood and I think you can handle it. My apologies if any of this offends you.



And yet none of this ever makes the police blotter or the papers. Must be another one of those liberal media conspiracies.

No, you just apparently aren't opening your eyes wide enough. Not everything makes it into the papers because they have a budget on space to report police activity, so, as a result, they only put in the most selacious bits. Clearly, as a big-shot news anchor, Mr. Burgundy, you should know how the media works. Note the examples I've posted above. And those are just some of the reports from within several blocks of my house in the last two months.

Another old curmudgeon! Welcome to the party! Let's see if we can do something about these damn these youngsters with their loud rap music that I keep reading so much about...

Thanks! Glad I could make it. You mentioned you lived 4 blocks west of here. That means you're off one of the main north-south routes in town, so you obviously don't have to deal with this issue as much. Yes, that goes with the territory of living next to a busy street. That just means the police should be doing a better job of patrolling it. The problem is, with all the drug dealing, vandalism, assault & battery, and thefts to deal with, they simply have bigger fish to fry than to deal with noise disturbances.

Only in Brown Deer...

Littering never happens anywhere else, it's tough for all of us living in our own communal garbage dump...

Of course not "only in Brown Deer." I never made such assertions. However, consider this. The police very frequently sit behind my house on Dean Rd. monitoring traffic through the intersection. They are there almost every other day. On top of that, there are at two crossing guards working there every day before and after school when school is in session. You'd think that they'd try and keep the young 'uns in line when they are in direct view of my fenceline. And that goes for the trespassing and littering in my yard, too.

Dude, this I agree with. It sucks. But you're in a direct path to the school from a relatively enclosed neighborhood. Again, this would happen no matter where you live.

There was one day when the police finally decided to enforce this. They caught a kid hopping my neighbor's fence and they made him hop right back over it and walk all the way around the block instead of cutting through his yard and they followed him the whole way to make sure he did it. That was funny. Now if they'd only do this more regularly...

You are quite the upstanding citizen with your neighborhood watch. My work situation provides me the opportunity to keep an eye out myself, so I can help you out this fall. I'm sure the entire school is just Lord of the Flies level anarchy and their average test scores while at the same time taking in numerous MPS students from broken homes is just a ruse. We know the truth...

The school is right outside my bedroom window. It's hard not to notice it when I wake up in the morning. Not to mention that I drive past it on my way to work every weekday. Note that this is different than the police patrolling the intersection. When they are patrolling the intersection, they are usually on the Dean Rd facing west towards 60th St. Occasionally, they'll be on the opposite side of 60th St. facing east. When they are at the school, they pull around and sit in the horseshoe driveway of the school.

I've no idea the level of chaos inside the school itself. I don't care to find out either. Obviously, there's enough crap going on that they find the need to call the police in pretty regularly, though, and that's evidence enough for me.

As for test scores, MPS across the entire school district is a steaming pile of shyte. It doesn't matter where the kids are coming from because all of the schools in the district are crap. You won't catch my kids attending them. Ever. The district is simply too damn big. This creates far too much overhead. We keep throwing money at the problem, but there are simply too many administrators making too much money. Back to the KISS principle. Keep It Simple, Stupid. Break the district up into smaller groups. More of the money will go towards educating students instead of paying for administrative BS. It's gotten so bad that its to the point where new teachers don't want to come here, so we're stuck with older teachers that have essentially given up trying. On top of that, we as a community have too low of expectations for our children. We need to demand better. Look to schools like Homestead or Arrowhead if you want to see some of the best students in the area. Use these two schools as examples of how to do things right. I used to work in the admissions office at MSOE and the students I saw from these two schools regularly dominated everyone else in the area.

Now here's a shocker. You'd rather go to Bayshore to shop rather than a dead mall that lacks any comparable stores. Hey, me too!

Here's a shocker for you. This is not good for city commerce when all the shoppers are going to other communities to spend their money. The Home Depot store that used to be on Good Hope Rd. found out the hard way that even if the same stores are here, the people would rather go elsewhere to shop. We'll see how the new Lowe's store fares, I guess. It never seems to be very busy. Nowhere near as busy as the Menards store over by the old mall, anyway. Reduced businesses means less sales tax revenue coming in, so that tax deficit needs to be made up somewhere. That "somewhere" is property taxes, permit fees, etc. My property taxes jumped almost 10% last year.

The only things Brown Deer has to attract people to come here are affordable housing and Brown Deer Park. Apart from those, there's no reason at all to come out here. It's several miles of city driving to get to any freeways and there's no worthwhile shopping or tourist destinations once you're here, so why stop unless you live here or you're visiting someone who does?

But seriously, the crime problem at "Granville Station" is relatively non-existent. I've never had an issue before or after dark with hooliganism, thuggery, and the like. You're looking for something that's not there. I remember reading about one random incident at the Andy's on 81st & BD occurring there in the last year and that was it. The Pick 'n Save just sucks because it's Pick 'n Save, not because it's at Northridge. No complaints here for Menards, though.

No, seriously... Open your eyes.

Milwaukee Crime Map - Showing Crime in Milwaukee, WI - Crime Statistics - Crime Alerts - Crime Stops Here

Okay, back to reality. Crime statistics are normalized for comparison. This is much more accurate and telling than anecdotal (mis)rememberances for that reason. You honestly think 84th & Oklahoma is safer? I would never considerate it "unsafe", but if you compare the normalized rates for Brown Deer and West Allis (if 84th & OK isn't Stallis, it's close enough...) you'll come to a different conclusion. Waukesha and Brookfield have lower rates, but they're further removed from the scrum of the city and also have a less welcoming attitude towards outsiders. There's good and bad that comes with that approach.

No, 84th & Oklahoma are not in West Allis. Beloit Rd. is the cut-off and that intersection is about 6-7 blocks away, which is, incidentally, further away than the "good neighborhoods in Brown Deer north of Brown Deer Rd." I'm only 3 blocks south of Brown Deer Rd. Looking at the website I've cited numerous times in this post, there appears to be somewhat fewer reports within the same radius over the same time period at my previous address. Oddly enough, one of the incidents reported appears to be coming from my old address. The new tenants must have some issues... Incidentally, that part of S. 84th St. is MUCH busier than the part of N. 60th St. I live by and we very rarely had issues with our apartment vibrating/windows rattling from loud stereos.

At any rate, this can mean several things, but only one is likely. Each town has good and bad parts, obviously. The distrubution of crimes is not uniform over the entire town, so it makes no sense to compare them that way unless you're talking about the overall levels of crime. Unfortunately, these figures you're clinging to are only useful to politicians and realtors. People who either don't actually live there, or people who don't care enough to distinguish the difference if it doesn't suit their argument. Ever hear of NIMBY? Not In My Back Yard. These sorts of statistics are great for you if you live in a part of town that's bringing the average down. But they mean a whole lot less when the crimes are still happening in your backyard. And this is the only time politicians ever seem to care. When it finally hits home for them.

As for Brookfield and Waukesha, I don't see how it really matters that they're "further removed from the scrum of the city." It's all metro-Milwaukee area. Due to the highway layout in this town, it's virtually the same travel time to get anywhere in the city from any of these places. Physical distance is less of a factor as travel times are generally comparable regardless of where you live. The only advantage Brown Deer would have is if I was trying to get to the northern burbs like Shorewood or Whitefolks Bay. And I've no idea where you get the idea that those communities are any less welcoming than Brown Deer. I've lived in all three and all are equal in this regard, at least in the neighborhoods I've lived in.

Again, cite all the statistics you want. They can be spun any number of ways to make them look favorable to your cause. My personal experience is that there's a lot more crime around me here than there has been at other places in the area that I've lived. Watch the news besides your own show, Mr. Burgundy, and you'll see that probably 3 out of 4 of the bad crimes being reported are on the north side of town. Not necessarily in Brown Deer, no, but it's still closer than I'd like. The fact is, you sometimes have to drive through these areas just to get to Brown Deer since there's no direct freeway routes. No matter which direction you're coming from, it's at least several miles of city driving to get to Brown Deer.

Taxes are comparable throughout the county. It sucks, but this is not a complaint that is specific and unique to the village. Regarding the baths, sorry you weren't able to notice these things before buying.

That they [the taxes] are, but that doesn't mean we should tolerate it. Yes, bigger cities have bigger operating costs. I realize that. But there are other ways this can be made up rather than taxing it's citizens to death in property taxes. Milwaukee County ranked 39th in the country as of 2007 in the category of property tax as percentage of value of the house.

The Tax Foundation - Property Tax on Owner-Occupied Housing, by County, Ranked by Property Taxes Paid*, 2005-2007 Average

As for the bathrooms in my house, yeah, it sucks. I was expecting to have more room after the remodeling we did when we bought the place, but it became cost prohibitive to do what we originally planned. We ended up just working with the existing room sizes and putting in new fixtures and flooring. We're going to try building our own place for the next house so we won't have to deal with that again. For this house, it almost seems like the designers laid out the floorplan and realized they forgot to put in bathrooms, so they just converted a couple of closets instead of doing a proper job of it. These bathrooms are like what you'd find in an efficiency apartment or maybe a Super 8 motel room, but the rest of the house is what I'd consider normal size for this style home. :shrug:

Outside of unverifiable claims of "shootings/beatings/etc", you listed mere annoyances than anything drastic and lifechanging. My advice would be to try and keep some perspective.

See evidence above.

And a comparable house in Brookfield will cost tenfold more. Okay, 25%+ minimum. Waukesha, go nuts though. Not my cup of tea.

Usually, yes, they are more because they are generally better neighborhoods with closer/better shopping or other local attractions. Prices aren't always higher, though. Deals can be found in any town if you shop around enough.

You're right, I wasn't too clear there. I was referring to Bradley Rd only. Residential sidestreets are in now way NW Milwaukee bad, but most could use a good re-paving. Doing so would definitely raise taxes though. They only have enough in the budget for 4 roads a year. I keep hoping mine's on the list, but it isn't that bad.


Brown Deer Road is a state highway, so I assume the jurisdiction is with the state. That said, I've never had any issues with the part that runs through the village. It was the River Hills part they're currently re-doing that always got me. That section was just terrible. Farther out past 107th St sucks, too. Also, Good Hope is a County Hwy and doesn't touch the city save for the short stretch between 43rd & 51st. Not sure of the relevancy there. The one bad spot I've encountered (eastbound after the Milwaukee River Parkway) is getting addressed with the construction this summer. Is that what you're referring to?

I think only the interstates are under state jurisdiction. Other roads are left up to the county in which they reside to maintain. City/Municipal roads are up to the municipality. Still, I don't care who maintains it. Just get it done. Our taxes pay for it one way or another. And I don't care if these roads are technically in Milwaukee, River Hills, or any other town. If I have to drive on them to get to my town, I want them fixed. Brown Deer Rd. and Good Hope Rd are the only exits from the freeway system to get to Brown Deer, so you're kind of stuck. I suspect the damage to my Mazda was caused either by the potholes on Brown Deer Rd. or by the construction that took forever at the intersection of 76th and Bradley. There was a huge bump there where they grated off the pavement that they didn't have marked for the longest time.

No offense, but as much as it sucks for you (my first car was a Mazda so i got a bit of a soft spot here), I think this is a perfectly rational response. As a fellow taxpayer, I'm glad the village isn't willing to subsidize your repairs sigh-unseen. Doing so would open a huge can of worms and again would raise those taxes we all think are too high.

Bite me. Yeah, I know. Real mature, right. I don't care.

[It might seem like I think this place can do no wrong, but that's not the case. I think strides can be made in the school system, property maintenance enforcement and tax control, but it's really not that bad. There are going to be issues no matter where you are, and lots of them are not unique to location. Again, it's all a matter of perspective.

Right. And my perspective is that this town needs a LOT of work.

[KC3700]

I don't get into that area often, but if you look at the crime data, such as the police blotter, Vipre 77 is right. There has been a steady increase in property crimes in Brown Deer.

I get what people are saying in that it's not bad compared to parts of the City of Milwaukee, but at the same time the trend is clear. It might be a good place to live now, but that can always change. That's why places like Brown Deer need to nip this stuff in the bud.

[Ron Burgundy]

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Frankly, if you don't see any of this stuff going on around you, you must be blind. And please, stop with all the head-in-the-sand B.S. about how this is par for the course of living in the city. We should have higher standards for the communities we live in, regardless of the size or proximity to Milwaukee. Instead, you seem to be throwing up your arms and saying, "What are ya gonna do? It's the city. Deal with it." The answer to that question is to demand more from those that live around you. Expect better of them. And expect better of your elected officials.

All of these incidences occurred in the city of Milwaukee. Demanding higher accountability in our fellow citizens is admirable and something I agree with, but how does that translate to those outside of our jurisdiction? Should we demand from our elected officials that Brown Deer must erect a wall around its borders? How is it our responsibility? That's like holding Glendale accountable because that serial killer they just caught lived (28th & Bobolink) a block from its border. I agree that it's an issue, but not one that can be fixed with a flip of the switch. I don't agree that it directly affects the average citizen of Brown Deer.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

No, you just apparently aren't opening your eyes wide enough. Not everything makes it into the papers because they have a budget on space to report police activity, so, as a result, they only put in the most selacious bits. Clearly, as a big-shot news anchor, Mr. Burgundy, you should know how the media works. Note the examples I've posted above. And those are just some of the reports from within several blocks of my house in the last two months.

Yes, stuff like this gets swept under the rug when it happens in Milwaukee because it is par for the course in a big city. But when stuff like this happens in Brown Deer or any other suburb, its newsworthy. Police blotters are stored online, with no space limitations. They don't list out every minor traffic stop, but major issues are reported. I still stand by the fact that our community is safe. Also, scotch, scotch, scotch!

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Thanks! Glad I could make it. You mentioned you lived 4 blocks west of here. That means you're off one of the main north-south routes in town, so you obviously don't have to deal with this issue as much. Yes, that goes with the territory of living next to a busy street. That just means the police should be doing a better job of patrolling it. The problem is, with all the drug dealing, vandalism, assault & battery, and thefts to deal with, they simply have bigger fish to fry than to deal with noise disturbances.

Are you confused with the borders? Brown Deer police don't have to deal with incidences south of Bradley Rd. on 60th because its outside of their jurisdiction. I think the police are doing an effective job preventing that element from becoming prevalent in our community, considering its surroundings. Thankfully, I haven't had issues with drug dealing, vandalism, assault, battery, and theft running rampant in my neighborhood, but once it does I won't stand flatfooted. Same for the rest of the village. We all have a stake in it succeeding.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

There was one day when the police finally decided to enforce this. They caught a kid hopping my neighbor's fence and they made him hop right back over it and walk all the way around the block instead of cutting through his yard and they followed him the whole way to make sure he did it. That was funny. Now if they'd only do this more regularly...

Nice!

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Here's a shocker for you. This is not good for city commerce when all the shoppers are going to other communities to spend their money. The Home Depot store that used to be on Good Hope Rd. found out the hard way that even if the same stores are here, the people would rather go elsewhere to shop.

No, the Home Depot closed because Home Depot overestimated their market potential and closed down several locations. They didn't just close that store. (Pick n' Save is moving to that location, BTW.) But seriously, did we honestly need a Menards, Lowe's, and Home Depot within a 2 mile radius?

Originally Posted by Vipre77

We'll see how the new Lowe's store fares, I guess. It never seems to be very busy. Nowhere near as busy as the Menards store over by the old mall, anyway.

I think the Lowe's is doing fine. They just re-surfaced their parking lot, not an action that would lead me to believe they're abandoning ship, and offer an element Menard's lacks (although Menard's does kick way more ass).

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Reduced businesses means less sales tax revenue coming in, so that tax deficit needs to be made up somewhere. That "somewhere" is property taxes, permit fees, etc. My property taxes jumped almost 10% last year.

Tax levy increased for the schools, not a loss in revenue. To me its a worthwhile investment, but yeah, the increase sucks.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

The only things Brown Deer has to attract people to come here are affordable housing and Brown Deer Park. Apart from those, there's no reason at all to come out here. It's several miles of city driving to get to any freeways and there's no worthwhile shopping or tourist destinations once you're here, so why stop unless you live here or you're visiting someone who does?

The first one was enough for me. When you're saving on housing, you have the extra money to spend on other things. Bayshore is 10 minutes away (okay, 15 when you hit every light red...). Downtown is 20 minutes away. The sticks are what, 15 minutes? Miller Park takes about 30 minutes to get there in rush hour, 20 minutes on the way back. One of the things I like about Brown Deer is it doesn't have a freeway gutting it up. The Stadium Freeway, if it were to be completed as planned, would have run right up 60th St. Since they didn't, 60th St is like a cul-de-sac compared to the noise of living off of I-43/45. Other advantages would be the large lots (.25 acre minimum), solid (and yes, older) housing stock, the diversity of the community (not always a detriment, you know...), the safety (contrary to your opinion), etc.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

As for Brookfield and Waukesha, I don't see how it really matters that they're "further removed from the scrum of the city."

Well it matters when you cite crime from the city of Milwaukee as a problem solely of the suburbs.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

And I've no idea where you get the idea that those communities are any less welcoming than Brown Deer. I've lived in all three and all are equal in this regard, at least in the neighborhoods I've lived in.

Yes, Waukesha County is one big bastion of tolerance.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Again, cite all the statistics you want. They can be spun any number of ways to make them look favorable to your cause. My personal experience is that there's a lot more crime around me here than there has been at other places in the area that I've lived.

But again, your "around me" includes areas outside the village. You're not seeing this happen in the village at nearly the same rate, if at all.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Watch the news besides your own show, Mr. Burgundy, and you'll see that probably 3 out of 4 of the bad crimes being reported are on the north side of town.

News team, assemble! It's possible that 3/4 of the bad crimes happen north of the interstate because a larger of the city of Milwaukee is north of the interstate. If there was a Franklin-esque suburb taking up 68th -124th and County Line to Mill Road, you'd have a closer ratio. Less space to patrol and whatnot.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Not necessarily in Brown Deer

Hey, now we're on the same page.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

but it's still closer than I'd like.

I agree, but for me it's not to a point where it makes me uncomfortable. I still live my day-to-day life without fear or worry.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

The fact is, you sometimes have to drive through these areas just to get to Brown Deer since there's no direct freeway routes. No matter which direction you're coming from, it's at least several miles of city driving to get to Brown Deer.

I-43 to 60th along Brown Deer Road is all suburb. I-43 to Sherman along Good Hope is also fine. Hwy 45 to 60th along Bradley is perfectly fine. Same along Good Hope. You could walk these routes day or night without issue, save for blisters. Even then, driving up 60th from Vliet isn't something that will put you at risk. Same for 76th. 43rd/Sherman is a treat going through the Sherman Park area. These crimes you speak of, they're not all random. Many and most are targeted instances. And for the most part, the village is doing a good job keeping it out of its borders.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

As for the bathrooms in my house, yeah, it sucks. I was expecting to have more room after the remodeling we did when we bought the place, but it became cost prohibitive to do what we originally planned. We ended up just working with the existing room sizes and putting in new fixtures and flooring. We're going to try building our own place for the next house so we won't have to deal with that again. For this house, it almost seems like the designers laid out the floorplan and realized they forgot to put in bathrooms, so they just converted a couple of closets instead of doing a proper job of it. These bathrooms are like what you'd find in an efficiency apartment or maybe a Super 8 motel room, but the rest of the house is what I'd consider normal size for this style home. :shrug:

Ha, I hear ya... People either must've been smaller back then in the 50s/60s or they were just able to put up with a lot more then we do. I saw a house in the Milwaukee area with a 24 sq ft kitchen. Who can possibly live like that?

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Usually, yes, they are more because they are generally better neighborhoods with closer/better shopping or other local attractions.

A lot of that housing is newer and larger as well.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Still, I don't care who maintains it. Just get it done. Our taxes pay for it one way or another. And I don't care if these roads are technically in Milwaukee, River Hills, or any other town. If I have to drive on them to get to my town, I want them fixed. Brown Deer Rd. and Good Hope Rd are the only exits from the freeway system to get to Brown Deer, so you're kind of stuck.

And the good news is, Brown Deer Rd & Good Hope are both being fixed and should be good as new by the end of autumn.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

I suspect the damage to my Mazda was caused either by the potholes on Brown Deer Rd. or by the construction that took forever at the intersection of 76th and Bradley. There was a huge bump there where they grated off the pavement that they didn't have marked for the longest time.

I know this one. Got suckered into it a few times as well.

Originally Posted by Vipre77

Bite me. Yeah, I know. Real mature, right. I don't care.


Right. And my perspective is that this town needs a LOT of work.

Dude, I don't agree with half of what you say, but you're all right. At least you had the decency to defend your side of the argument.

[Ron Burgundy]

Originally Posted by KC3700

I don't get into that area often, but if you look at the crime data, such as the police blotter, Vipre 77 is right. There has been a steady increase in property crimes in Brown Deer.

I get what people are saying in that it's not bad compared to parts of the City of Milwaukee, but at the same time the trend is clear. It might be a good place to live now, but that can always change. That's why places like Brown Deer need to nip this stuff in the bud.

Actually, the data he posted is from the city of Milwaukee, so you're not seeing an increase in property crimes in Brown Deer. Statistics say crime has been stagnant over the last 5 years or so in the village, so the police department has been doing a good job nipping this stuff in the bud. I haven't had any issues whatsoever, even after accidentally leaving my garage door open overnight on 2 occasions. The shopping center at Green Bay/Brown Deer Road is a large part of the crime issues in Brown Deer, and even then it's "only" shoplifting.

[KC3700]

Good to hear it's stagnant. I know that towards the early pert of the decade I heard about a lot of stuff going down.

The Marketplace of Brown Deer does account for a lot of the crime up there, but you are right, everything I read in the blotters was either shoplifting or check fraud. The only other major crime trend I read about was at your local YMCA, where people were busting into other peoples' lockers.

Hearing what Viper said, I just assumed that the area had made the jump from small stuff like that to the big stuff like selling dro.