concealed carry (Milwaukee, Newark, Brooklyn: middle-class, home, neighborhood)

[ccjarider]

In the 48 other states where gov't actually trusts folks (unlike a- hole Doyle) research, survey and statisitics contiually show reduction in crime after CC became the law of a state.
When asked - criminals love the fact that they know a person probably is not carrying. In states where it is legal, they have to be more careful.

Think of criminals as lions. Lions always choose the weakest for food. There is no sense in taking on a buffalo when a fawn is available for the taking. Do yourself a favor - lobby to be a buffalo, not a fawn.

[karfar]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

In the 48 other states where gov't actually trusts folks (unlike a- hole Doyle) research, survey and statisitics contiually show reduction in crime after CC became the law of a state.
When asked - criminals love the fact that they know a person probably is not carrying. In states where it is legal, they have to be more careful.

Think of criminals as lions. Lions always choose the weakest for food. There is no sense in taking on a buffalo when a fawn is available for the taking. Do yourself a favor - lobby to be a buffalo, not a fawn.

Well, I don't know about the statistics, but even if that's true I'm still not a fan. I just have no appeal for guns.

[jjacobeclark]

In order to get a conceal-carry permit in Colorado, all you need to do is attend a 6 hour training class. That just doesn't seem like enough training to allow everyone the right to carry guns like a sheriff in the Old West.

[ccjarider]

The "old west" analogy while entertaining, is not realistic.
Firearms are not hard to use and are nothing more that a tool. Do not be afraid of them

Throughout history, there have been bad people and bad governments. It is your right to be able to defend yourself and your family. You should tell your representative gov't that you want/need the ability to excercise your right.

For the most part, police are around for 3 reasons:
1) clean up messes,
2) help determine what happened and
3) generate revenue for gov't.

They are not there to protect you. The Supreme court has repeatedly ruled that gov't (i.e police) are not obligated to "protect" you. This is why is it fruitless to sue the gov't if you think inadequate response was provided to your 911 call. There are hundreds of incidents where no help arrived when summoned and there is nothing you can do about it.

In recent history of this country, just the presence of private firearms has prevented huge violence and mayhem when the police vacated areas. Check out the history of LA riots, post hurricane Miami and New Orleans and various race riots in the 60's. Private citizen defense of property and family kept further disaster from occuring when the police were no where to be found. For rthe most part, shots are not even fired. Bad guys will stay away for areas where they know private firearms are present. The Asian store owners of LA learned this and thus protected their stores and homes from the mob looting.

Peopel who do not acknowledge reality may be in big trouble if they rely on gov't to protect them.

Another thought tickler - How do you defend yourself from your gov't if it decides to go bad??

[Ron Burgundy]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Another thought tickler - How do you defend yourself from your gov't if it decides to go bad??

You vote for change. At least that's what I did...

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

For the most part, police are around for 3 reasons:
1) clean up messes,
2) help determine what happened and
3) generate revenue for gov't.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

They are not there to protect you. The Supreme court has repeatedly ruled that gov't (i.e police) are not obligated to "protect" you. This is why is it fruitless to sue the gov't if you think inadequate response was provided to your 911 call. There are hundreds of incidents where no help arrived when summoned and there is nothing you can do about it.

Every cop car I've ever seen says "To Protect and Serve" right on the side of it. The police are our appointed protectors, regardless of their effectiveness. The Constitution only gives citizens the right to bear arms in the absence of a militia. A militia in modern terms would be your local police department and National Guard unit.

By the way, why don't you cite some specific Supreme Court cases to back up your claims, instead of simply parroting gibberish you probably overheard at an NRA meeting.

[MILWCITY]

, instead of simply parroting gibberish you probably overheard at an NRA meeting

WOW, you know what happens when you assume? I'll use the DC case from this year sorry I don't know the case number for ref.

I'm not a member of the NRA, nor do I want to be. I would like to have a back plan though when I travel to Milwaukee's most dangerous 'hoods. Remember you can't call the cops when your dead.

[ccjarider]

JJAC,
I believe from your childish response that a case # or whatever statistic is put out there will not change your emotion based feeling on the issue.

If you feel content that a "slogan" keeps you out of harms way, that is your prerogative. A naive perogative, but yours nontheless.

I know 3 city cops, 1 in Chicago, 2 in Milw. They will be happy to tell you that just relying on police when you are in trouble is setting yourself up for disaster.

Smart people will and do take responsibility to protect themselves. BTW, this is happening regardless of what Doyle thinks he can control.

I think all the OP is saying is that he/she should not be a criminal for excercising their right to survive.

Why would you care if OP, others or me want to excercise this right? We won't hurt you or yours. In fact, we may even be able to assist you in time of need when the real bad guys are causing you harm.

It is always interesting to me when elitists want to dicate how others should live.

[ladybuglibrarian]

i have taken a concealed carry course. but moving to Milwaukee makes it very invalid. but, i am sure that you are allowed to own a gun. you do have a right to protect yourself. you just can not walk outside with it.

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

JJAC,
I believe from your childish response that a case # or whatever statistic is put out there will not change your emotion based feeling on the issue.

That sounds like a cop-out to me, because I bet you don't have any credible evidence to cite.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Smart people will and do take responsibility to protect themselves. BTW, this is happening regardless of what Doyle thinks he can control.

By "smart people" I must assume you don't mean degreed or educated people. As people who hold a four year degree tend to have more liberal social views.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Why would you care if OP, others or me want to excercise this right? We won't hurt you or yours. In fact, we may even be able to assist you in time of need when the real bad guys are causing you harm.

I care about it because I don't want to live in a community where people can potentially be concealing very dangerous weapons. I'll take my chances with "the real bad guys" rather than have some gun-toting lunatic like you come to my rescue. BTW who are these "real bad guys" any way? You sound completely irrational by assuming there are always "bad" people conspiring against you and your loved ones.

I recently visited a good friend of mine who lives in East Harlem. While I was there, I walked alone to and from the 96th street subway station at all times of the day and night without a single problem. You all seem to live in constant fear of the unknown. Fear of rapists, crackheads, gangbangers, serial killers, transvestites, pedophiles, zombies, grizzly bears, the Red Chinese, the Legion of Doom, etc. Bad things do happen, but living your life in a perpetual state of fear isn't healthy or productive, and sure as hell won't prevent them. In Israel they have to live with the constant threat of suicide bombings, yet they go about their business as usual. Terrorism is meant to terrorize the living, and you all seem to be playing right along. This whole economic collapse we're experiencing was exactly what Osama Bin Laden wanted us to do to ourselves. We have to stop fearing one another if we want to move past this, and arming everyone with weapons won't do anything to break down barriers.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

It is always interesting to me when elitists want to dicate how others should live.

Is elitist slang for informed person?