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Old 04-27-2008, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
12,172 posts, read 11,035,080 times
Reputation: 14847

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Milwaukee has always been a city that has been very tough on crime, with the police conduct bordering on excessive or extreme at times. Many don't remember Ernest Lacy. Ernest went to school with me and attended Washington High for a year in 1976. We sat together in homeroom and I still can remember him sitting in the back next to me refusing to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. He would say, "they haven't put no money in my pocket." Last time I saw Ernest, we talked for a bit, and he told me to "keep my chin up." Ernest blinked a lot and had some psychological and mental problems, including acute schizophrenia. That was the last time I would see him alive though.

On June 9th, 1981, I was staying with my girl who had an apartment on 24th and Wells. There was a market (7-Eleven) on the corner of 24th and Wisconsin Ave. I had actually left and was on my way to the market when I heard sirens up ahead on Wisconsin Ave. When I got there, I was told that some guy had been taken in by the cops and thrown in the paddy wagon. That was Ernest I would later find out. Ernest Lacy had been on his way to the market to get some snacks while taking a break for painting an apartment. He was just walking on Wisconsin Ave when he was approached by 3 burly officers who were looking for a black man who had just committed a rape in the neighborhood. It could've been me they stopped but they got to Ernest first. They confronted Ernest who because of his personality and mental disorders was no doubt in great fear of these three men converging on him in that manner. Ernest wasn't that big and certainly posed no physical threat to these three big overweight officers. Ernest might've made a move to escape according to some witnesses and the officers prevented him from doing so. The more he struggled, the more they did to subdue him. According to some witnesses, Ernest was pinned to the street; one patrolman reportedly placed his knee against Ernest's neck, handcuffed his arms behind his back and raised them high above his head. Later, in the paddy wagon, another arrested man noticed that Lacy had stopped breathing.

Police eventually charged someone else with the rape.

The coroner's jury of three blacks and three whites spent a month listening to many witnesses. The cause of death, the jurors concluded, was an interruption of the oxygen flow to Ernest's brain due to pressure applied to his chest and to a nerve in his neck. It was then recommended that the three men who arrested Lacy be prosecuted for "homicide by reckless conduct," and that one of them, plus two officers who were in the paddy wagon, be tried for "misconduct in public office and failure to aid a prisoner in their custody."

The police chief at the time was Harold Brier, who many felt was an incredible racist, a brutal man with a calloused demeanor. He was very confrontational and had utter disdain for black suspects and women. He called the jury's report "a terrible miscarriage of justice" and warned that it would damage morale on the force.

In 1983, the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission found five officers guilty of failing to render first aid to Ernest Lacy. Hard to believe 26 years have passed.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:33 PM
 
1 posts, read 5,664 times
Reputation: 14
Sorry to bust your bubble, but your facts are skewed.
FIRST of all, the man that was charged with the rape was later found not guilty. Ernest Lacy was 2 blocks from where the woman was raped and matched the description that the victim gave to the police. The other man that was charged did NOT match the description that she gave to the police.
Second of all, Ernest Lacy was not taking his medication for his schizophrenia.
Third of all, he was high on cocaine at the time of his death. It was believed that it was the drugs in his system, NOT police brutality that killed him. Amazingly, the autopsy reports "disappeared" before it could be used as "evidence" that would have cleared the officers.

If you've ever seen an episode of COPS, you would know that people on street drugs can often have what is described as superhuman strength.

And Gee, the more he stuggled to get away, the more they did to subdue him? The last time I checked, that was called RESISTING ARREST. The knee on his neck? That is a maneuver that police officers are taught use to subdue assailants. (Again, see COPS) Should they not chase the bad guys that rape women in case they have the wrong person?

I'm sorry that you lost a "friend", but his death ruined the lives of those officers and their families. His illegal drug use, his not taking his medication, and refusing to stop when the officers confronted him is what killed him, not the police.

I'm so sick and tired for people always trying to blame the good guys and not put the responsibility where it belongs. It is time to drop all of this political correctness and call a bad guy a bad guy and let the good cops do their jobs. That is what is wrong with the world today. The bad guys get the benefit of the doubt and the good guys are made to look like the bad guys when they were just doing their jobs.
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Old 11-14-2009, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,458 posts, read 2,617,192 times
Reputation: 725
I lived just down the street from where Lacy got killed-maybe three buildings.
For the next week we heard nothing but angry blacks marching and chanting up and down the street. We couldn't rest-we didn't kill him.

"We sat together in homeroom and I still can remember him sitting in the back next to me refusing to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. He would say, "they haven't put no money in my pocket"

Sounds like a prince. I have no doubt he did it.
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Old 11-14-2009, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Brewers Hill
88 posts, read 132,516 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
I lived just down the street from where Lacy got killed-maybe three buildings.
For the next week we heard nothing but angry blacks marching and chanting up and down the street. We couldn't rest-we didn't kill him.

"We sat together in homeroom and I still can remember him sitting in the back next to me refusing to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. He would say, "they haven't put no money in my pocket"

Sounds like a prince. I have no doubt he did it.
Since he refused to stand for the pledge and said "they haven't put no money in my pocket", means that he did it.

Moron
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
12,172 posts, read 11,035,080 times
Reputation: 14847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggles123 View Post
Sorry to bust your bubble, but your facts are skewed.
FIRST of all, the man that was charged with the rape was later found not guilty. Ernest Lacy was 2 blocks from where the woman was raped and matched the description that the victim gave to the police. The other man that was charged did NOT match the description that she gave to the police.
Second of all, Ernest Lacy was not taking his medication for his schizophrenia.
Third of all, he was high on cocaine at the time of his death. It was believed that it was the drugs in his system, NOT police brutality that killed him. Amazingly, the autopsy reports "disappeared" before it could be used as "evidence" that would have cleared the officers.

If you've ever seen an episode of COPS, you would know that people on street drugs can often have what is described as superhuman strength.

And Gee, the more he stuggled to get away, the more they did to subdue him? The last time I checked, that was called RESISTING ARREST. The knee on his neck? That is a maneuver that police officers are taught use to subdue assailants. (Again, see COPS) Should they not chase the bad guys that rape women in case they have the wrong person?

I'm sorry that you lost a "friend", but his death ruined the lives of those officers and their families. His illegal drug use, his not taking his medication, and refusing to stop when the officers confronted him is what killed him, not the police.

I'm so sick and tired for people always trying to blame the good guys and not put the responsibility where it belongs. It is time to drop all of this political correctness and call a bad guy a bad guy and let the good cops do their jobs. That is what is wrong with the world today. The bad guys get the benefit of the doubt and the good guys are made to look like the bad guys when they were just doing their jobs.
I don't think you have been getting enough Wisconsin cheese with that whine. Ridiculous using this event to expose your one-sided viewpoint, yes? If the autopsy reports "disappeared", why assume that this means that the officers were not the cause of death? More likely, they disappeared because they showed clearly that those bonehead officers did cause his death. Witnesses at the time said that Lacy was unconscious when they put him in the wagon AFTER the overweight officer(s) used the technique on his neck. Lacy weighed no more than 160-170 lbs if I recall. Those bloated, overweight police officers were tipping the scales at 230+ I believe. It took three of them to subdue that skinny black man with super powers. That's at least 700 lbs of beer and bratwurst obesity to go along with the angry, scared syndrome to subdue and kill a drugged out skinny black man.

Recognize the incompetence. Don't be calloused, one-sided, and part of the problem because the victim here was a black man. This was 1981, not 2009 with a "COPS" show so people can play sideline cop. To give you an idea what type of neanderthals were part of these "good guys", there was the case of Jeffrey Dahmer in 1991. Dahmer was raping 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone when he got away and was discovered on the street wandering naked and bleeding from the rectum. Dahmer chased him down and some women called 911. When the cops arrived, Dahmer told them that the boy was his 19 year-old boyfriend and that they had an argument. Police turned the boy over to Dahmer, despite the urging to the contrary of those witnesses. Dahmer later killed and dismembered him. The two policemen failed to run a background check that would have revealed that Dahmer was a convicted child molester still under probation. The officers laughed about the incident, one joking that his partner was "going to get deloused." Sure, I'm all for the cops and have a great deal of respect for what they do. But you have to admit that mistakes happen. Recognize that, rather than letting your disdain for ignorant black people and crime destroy your judgment. Don't be a clueless Republican.

Sure, Milwaukee has had a serious problem for quite some time: an incredible number of ignorant, illiterate black people from the South mainly. These people have wrecked havoc on that city no doubt. I was there in '08 and it is shameful. Equally depressing though is the continuing presence of some of the most backwards non-black hicks in the midwest. Rigid, narrow-minded, blue-collar, obese, ignorant, and far from intelligent. The city has problems with both types and unfortunately many from this latter group go on to be cops. Don't pretend that all cops are Andy Griffith.

Police Chief Harold Brier at the time of the Lacy killing was under fire because of the continuing brutality of the police department towards black people. He was hardcore. I guess he felt that one way to deal with these "savages" was to treat them as such. He was hard on crime, bordering on being hateful, with the utter disdain for blacks at that time. It is not surprising that with a police chief with this type of mentality, excessive force was encouraged and used. In this case, it caused the death of Lacy. Lacy, despite his shortcomings, was killed by cops who applied excessive force. It doesn't matter that he resisted arrest. It was not surprising at that time, but still infuriating, that a few trained overweight cops could not subdue a black man who was as skinny as Lacy was, without killing him. Such were the times.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:57 PM
 
49 posts, read 98,298 times
Reputation: 14
Wiggles was just pointing out the other side of the story, just the same as you stated your side.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:56 AM
 
Location: in the sun with all shadows behind me, in a small town with no "culture" to malign me
80 posts, read 20,819 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
Sure, Milwaukee has had a serious problem for quite some time: an incredible number of ignorant, illiterate black people from the South mainly.

Oct. 2009 Chicago Sun Times
Chicago claimed five of the top scoring public high schools in Illinois this year — but also 38 of the bottom ones.

Further south?
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
12,172 posts, read 11,035,080 times
Reputation: 14847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao111 View Post
Oct. 2009 Chicago Sun Times
Chicago claimed five of the top scoring public high schools in Illinois this year but also 38 of the bottom ones.

Further south?
Chicago ruined as well. Milwaukee and Chicago are squarely in the "Migration Zone."

Maybe it's not fair to single out the migration from the South. I'll just say that a great deal of people moved to both cities during the same time period. They largely consisted of people who ran from education. The result of course is shameful and evident in both cities.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:30 AM
 
Location: Florida
594 posts, read 373,412 times
Reputation: 266
Default Remembering Ernest Lacy

I recall the 1981 death of Ernest Lacy. I was working at Milwaukee
County General (later medical Complex) Anyway, the guy fit some vague
desciption of a rapist so the cops pulled over and placed him in a choke
hold that either asphixiated him or the poor guy had a cadiac arrest. The
cops are trained to subdue the suspect,but in this case witnesses said he
didn't even resist. I believe Ernest had a mental disability and out of fear
may have struggled slightly? The cops were vindicated in accidentally
(excessive force I believe although hinsight) killing an innocent man!!!!
Ernest was clean!!!!! It was a huge situation with the black community
protesting on Wisconsin Ave, and other areas. I was appauled and ex-
tremely saddened by the whole stupid mess. I really loved the blacks in
Milwaukee they are the salt of the earth. The sweet grandmas invited me
for lunch and to sit on porches when I made delivers for a local oxygen
company after leaving County. It racially divided a part of Milwukee for
awhile ,but a the black community used the incident to promote greater
respect,safety and balanced law enforcement in Milwaukee.

God Bless Ernest Lacy our hearts are heavy for the loss of this kind ,harmless, sweet man who I believe the Lord has given him
an eternal life of unspeakable joy that we all seek.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:33 PM
 
2 posts, read 6,893 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:

Equally depressing though is the continuing presence of some of the most backwards non-black hicks in the midwest. Rigid, narrow-minded, blue-collar, obese, ignorant, and far from intelligent. The city has problems with both types and unfortunately many from this latter group go on to be cops. Don't pretend that all cops are Andy Griffith.
HHHAHHA Could not have said it any better.

VIVA SCHMENGIES!! welcome to Lutonia!


And don't forget the other "minority" Lawrencia Bembenek who at around that time was brutalized
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