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Not to throw fuel on a fire (no pun intended), but does Milwaukee need more firefighters? The population of the city is declining. How many major fires actually occur in the nicer parts of Milwaukee per year? ...l[/url]
Now there is a compassionate individual. Get yourself a fire extinguisher to take care of the small fires. And if you live in a poor part of the city, who cares if your home burns down? You don't really count as a human being if you're poor.
The fires are actually going up in Milwaukee I think. There is more arson due to the economy. Another thing people seem to forget is that fireman do more than put out fires. They respond to ALL emergencies in the city. Medical emergencies happen all the time throughout Milwaukee.
The MFD tested last summer for the first time in FOUR years. They have over 100 vacancies and injuries and deaths per fire have gone up because of that. They still have yet to hire anyone from this new list established from last summers test. I know this because I finished in the top 10 out of the thousands that tested after the written test, interviews, and physical agility test. They might finally hire 50 people by this winter. Unfortunately, I most likely won't be taking the job. Because the city is so screwed up, I left. I now work for the Washington, DC Fire Department.
DC is doing a lot better overall as a city, but they also treat their fire department as a top rate service. I start making $8000 more per year, and it will most likely go up a few thousand more by the end of 2009. I know it costs a lot more to live in DC, but I also work less. Milwaukee has three shifts. Work 24 hours on, 48 off. DC has four shifts where I work 24 on, 72 off. Of course DC has over a million people coming into the city daily in addition to residents for work or tourism. So we work less due to the high burnout rate since most fire engines run over 20 calls every day here.
Just making a comparison with a city of a similar size. They treat their firemen a little bit differently.
MFD goes on every 911 call in the city. The divorce rate in the MFD is astounding for these men work 24-48 hour shifts and very seldom get a full nights sleep so aside from being gone MOST of the time when they are home they sleep. I don't think you are thinking about what these people see everyday. Such as gun shots, suicide, murder, drug overdose, child abuse... The list goes on and on. MFD is rated one of the best fire departments in the nation. I think you might need to go educate yourself a little more before you start running your mouth about HALF of the facts... You are very lucky these men are risking there lives for you! They deserve there pay! They are saving lives... every day.
As much as I respect Firefighters, and what they do, lets face it, in our recession, we need to shrink government spending. Guess what, that includes the fire service. As an ER doc, and former MKE Sheriff, I have a little bit of insight. Here is what I would do.
1. There are private ambulances running amok in Milwaukee. USE THEM. Now, I would slash some. If you've seen Curtis' and Meda-care's rigs lately, obviously, they are in trouble, and are not long for this world, I do not believe they could manage taking more business at this point. Give the North side to Paratech, the South side and downtown to Bell.
2. They will run BOTH BLS and ALS ambulances. Hell they already employ HUGE numbers of medics anyway, lets use them for more that transfers. After all guys, lets be honest, these same medics are your paramedics out in the burb's, they are not only competent medics, many of which are CCEMT-P's, but they have been trained in, and use skills that MFD can not/or will not. Blame Dr. Pirillo all you want, I for one don't blame him for limiting what MFD medics do.
Also, anyone from MFD wants to come up with stories about how they say private ambulances do...this, or that.... Just remember, that street goes both ways. I've heard horror stories about MFD's patient care also, and I've seen it first hand.
3. Eliminate MFD ambulances.
4. Have MFD do tiered response to "critical" calls. They will have more stations, and can keep using thier PFR's on Engines. Have them first-respond to chest-pains, PNBs, SOB, etc.
This is very similar to what they do in Appleton.
5. Have a small "oversight" committee at city level. Including a member of MFD, a member of dispatch, a rep from paratech, a rep from bell, a doc or two, and a member of the public. Keep watch on care, dispatching, response times, etc.
6. Start closing a few stations, reducing apparatus. I hate to say it, but your jobs aren't bullet-proof guys. Let's face it, we could take a station or 5 from some of the "slower" area's without much impact. I.E. station/engine 16 Engine 4... and whatever one is on Granville can cover 16's area with little issue.
7. "But what if a big fire takes up many rigs, won't we be putting the public in danger?" MABAS/Mutual Aid...it's been around for years and years, everyone else uses it...
8. "But the suburban firefighters aren't used to the "urban setting." You would be surprised at the training they have. I would bet money, that there are more certifications, and degrees in a department like South Shore, than all of MFD. These guys have time on their hands....so they TRAIN.
9. By the way, you want the community to support you? This past summer, at 3pm on a thursday afternoon, I drove past Engine 11's quarters. only to see two guys sitting in lawnchairs in front of your open bay doors, playing guitars. Charming and all, but hey guys, those are TAX dollars at work! Think of the image your putting off. And if you want to argue the point about they work 8-5, but can't go home.... So what your saying is...They work 18 hour weeks, but just have to be on "stand-by" in the station the other 30 hours. OK...so we will pay you accordingly...how's that?
and last but not least,
10. In some of the quieter area's of the city, start utilizing "mixed" apparatus, such as Quints. I look at some of the other departments in the area. I great example is Thiensville...now before you go off about the difference between tiny Thiensville and Metropolis Milwaukee...just listen. Thiensville had budget issues, AND, manpower issues. As the small town became populated by downtown working white-collars, there was less and less of a man-power pool to get vollies from. SO, the chief took a page from the U.S. Army handbook. More training, More technology, less Men. Their Quint is a genius design. It's worked there, it CAN work here. Take some of these slower stations. Like whatever one is on South 84th street (near Howard) Put a Quint in there, it can run as an Engine, Ladder, EMS, Extrication, whatever needed, and on a working fire, it has everything for the first in crews till more help shows up.
I know a LOT of this will want to make MFD steaming mad, but we HAVE GOT to get real. There are better, and more efficiant ways to run the department that could potentially save millions.
I know a LOT of this will want to make MFD steaming mad, but we HAVE GOT to get real. There are better, and more efficiant ways to run the department that could potentially save millions.
Actually, if you were really versed into what is happening and will be happening, you wouldn't need to be tossing in "two" cents.
Consolidation is the key to savings and is what will be happening in the very near future. This is about way more than just Milwaukee. The MPFFA has been very active in trying to do what is right for the tax payers. Do some research, see who it was that local-215 supported for governor. I'll give you a hint, it was the guy elected. We were one of only two labor unions to support Governor Walker; we have also been working very close with the governor's office on ways to save not just Milwaukee tax money, but the whole state, also. Seeing as the vast majority of the city's annual budget is derived from shared revenue, the rest of the state has a bit invested here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blast49
3. Eliminate MFD ambulances.
4. Have MFD do tiered response to "critical" calls. They will have more stations, and can keep using thier PFR's on Engines. Have them first-respond to chest-pains, PNBs, SOB, etc.
This is very similar to what they do in Appleton.
Actually, they aren't MFD ambulances, as they are all paramedic rigs. This means that they are actually county, staffed with MFD personnel. And honestly, the system works very well as is and provides the community with some of the highest levels of service in the nation. The department already utilizes a tiered system which already incorporates the private companies. There are about 40,000 calls for service that are triaged to the privates based on caller information to the alarm bureau. Not to mention that they provide all BLS transports to the hospital which has been saving tax payers money for years.
Never mind the fact that open records laws don't apply to a private service the same way they do to a municipal based service, such as MFD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blast49
In some of the quieter area's of the city, start utilizing "mixed" apparatus, such as Quints.
Obviously you have no real understanding of the "quint" concept. It doesn't save any money at all and, in fact would cost tax payers even more money and provide less return for the service.
St. Louis went to a total quint concept in 1990. What they found thru real world experience is that the rigs are an expensive concept as well as not being very efficient. The rigs are over weight and under equipped. You end up with an engine that can't carry enough hose and a truck company that has too few ladders. You have an engine with a 500 gallong water tank coupled with an aerial device. Wear and tear on these rigs is enormous, and they tear up city streets at a greater pace. Basically you get a poor engine and poor truck out of a single vehicle. The city of St. Louis is now in the process of returning to a traditional engine/truck concept for these reasons and a host of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blast49
Start closing a few stations, reducing apparatus. I hate to say it, but your jobs aren't bullet-proof guys. Let's face it, we could take a station or 5 from some of the "slower" area's without much impact. I.E. station/engine 16 Engine 4... and whatever one is on Granville can cover 16's area with little issue.
So what you're saying is, is that the people who live in the "slower" areas don't deserve the same level of service as those in the inner city? Honestly, I sleep better at night knowing that help is a few minutes away, at most. The more stations that close, the longer the response times. The longer the response times, the more fire grows and the more likely that brain death can occur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blast49
8. "But the suburban firefighters aren't used to the "urban setting." You would be surprised at the training they have. I would bet money, that there are more certifications, and degrees in a department like South Shore, than all of MFD. These guys have time on their hands....so they TRAIN.
Don't bet any money because you will lose. All of our recruits carry every certificate the suburban guys do, now that the BIT participates with the state programs.
The issue was not with the guys, though. It is with equipment and a lack of cooperation between different cities. The suburban rigs and tactics are not set up to function with MFD units; heck, the different departments can't talk to each other via radio, and that is what gets firefighters killed. Communication and interoperability are the keys ro putting fires out and saving lives. We don't have that as a region for that to work. Small town politics have kept this from happening in the past, and every community in the region is guilty.
For MABAS to function effectively, there needs top be full scale overhauls of every department in the area. Honestly, the high water mark for this is already happening directly to our south in the state of Illinois. As much as it pains me to admit that Illinois, and more specifically Chicago-land has their act squared away, that is the truth of it.
Cutting the MFD is not going to save enough money and leave a high level of service that protects the public. There needs to be a consolidation of services with the burbs in the county. Cutting administrations that are duplicated in every department, along with closing inefficient fire house locations are not only what is needed, but what will be implemented.
10. In some of the quieter area's of the city, start utilizing "mixed" apparatus, such as Quints. I look at some of the other departments in the area. I great example is Thiensville...now before you go off about the difference between tiny Thiensville and Metropolis Milwaukee...just listen. Thiensville had budget issues, AND, manpower issues. As the small town became populated by downtown working white-collars, there was less and less of a man-power pool to get vollies from. SO, the chief took a page from the U.S. Army handbook. More training, More technology, less Men. Their Quint is a genius design. It's worked there, it CAN work here. Take some of these slower stations. Like whatever one is on South 84th street (near Howard) Put a Quint in there, it can run as an Engine, Ladder, EMS, Extrication, whatever needed, and on a working fire, it has everything for the first in crews till more help shows up.
Have you ever stretched hose? Put up ladders and ventilated a roof? Ever dragged an unconscious person out of a zero visibility atmosphere? it takes bodies to do those tasks. There is no other way around it. There is no way one person can stretch and operate a handline, ventilate a roof or remove an unconscious person out of a structure. It can't be done, no matter how much money you want to save. I don't say this to be a jag, it's just that oftentimes people don't realize or understand how physically demanding basic firefighting is.
There is also no way that Thiensville can be compared to Milwaukee for fire duty. That is just plain silly and unrealistic. The fire load due to housing stock, along with exposure issues, forcible entry issues, and so on don't exist in Thiensville. I already talked about quints in an urban setting, the proof is already there; they don't work well. They are expensive and extremely costly with maintenance. Never mind the fact that your idea won't work. That quint, even though it has a main and a pump is still only able to perform as an engine or a truck company, unless you want to staff it with 7 or 8 members per shift. Just because you have both capabilities, meaning engine and truck, there is still only four members. That company can still only perform a limited amount of duties, in other words there are no real net gains. They will only be functioning as an engine or a truck; these are the lessons that St. Louis learned, from actually using the concept in the real world.
Yes, we are in a recession. Yes, times are tough and things need to change. However, none of that changes what needs to be done in order to put fires out and protect the public. It still takes adequately staffed and well placed fire companies to do that. There are ways to save money, and we are going to find out just how much the suburban communities want to save money and improve efficiency with their fire service. We're all going to find out just how conservative everyone is fiscally. We already save the tax payers of West Milwaukee millions of dollars per year by providing fire and ems service to the village, and improved the service they receive at the same time. It's really kind of a no-brainer.
Efficiency in fire/ems is defined by how fast competent service is delivered to your front door. The city of Milwaukee has help at your door inside of 4:30 (minutes) better than 90% of the time.
I don't want to wait 20 minutes for an ambulance, do you? That happens in a lot of cities in this nation of ours.
Maybe we're looking in the wrong spot for cuts. What is the annual operating budget for the MCSO? What do they do that isn't already performed by each individual community? Maybe all of these smaller communities need to eliminate their law enforcement and let the MCSO actually work. It appears to me that there is an awful lot of waste in the duplication of those services. I know that might make the MCSO kinda hot, but after all, I'm just saying...there has to be a better way to save millions, right?
Last edited by TommyGavin; 01-31-2011 at 08:43 PM..
Tommy - Your union is going to regret the decision on the Walker endorsement for governor. Walker is clearly anti union and this is pointed out by his attempts to crush the state workers union before he was even sworn in. He has a disdain for Milwaukee and this will be evident when he drops the atomic bomb on the city with his soon to be abolishment of the residency rule. I feel sorry for the south side single family home owner who will see $100,000 in equity vanish with the stoke of a pen. It will be devastation to many city employees would want to retire and move up north to begin their lives as a frozen hermits. This is a case of be careful of what you wish for, because you may not like how it turns out.
Last edited by Allan Trafton; 02-01-2011 at 08:47 AM..
Allan, you're typically not the doom-n-gloom type, so your reply kind of surprises me.
I understand where the opinion that Walker is anti-union stems from, but he was able to convince the membership of the MPA and the MPFFA that he is not. He clearly has an agenda, no doubt about it, but I would not regard him as being anti-union. So far, a very open and positive relationship has developed with the governor, and he has been very open and receptive to ideas on how to improve fire/ems/police with a reduction in shared revenue.
Do you honestly believe that opening up residency will destroy the city? It may, but keeping residency in place could destroy it also, if this city and state were to keep a business climate that continues to push business out. I also don't believe for one second that Walker hates Milwaukee, well, at least not any more than any of the other suburbanites do! (poor humor)
My personal feeling is that Walker needs a chance to try and draw more business in. We weren't heading in the right direction as a state, especially with the corruption and incompetence from Doyle.
I also don't believe for one second that Walker hates Milwaukee, well, at least not any more than any of the other suburbanites do!
And that's not reason enough by itself not to trust him? I honestly don't know how anyone could take an honest look at the quality of services the central city has received from the county over the past 8 years and conclude anything but Scott Walker absolutely reviles Milwaukee. You said it yourself that AllanTrafton is not usually the doom and gloom type... the fact that he is here should tell you something.
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I think you need to get some more facts!!!
