Milwaukee vs. Minneapolis (Madison, Dane, York: how much, find a job, neighborhood)

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by TheManWithoutQualities

Is the area near Marquette safe enough for living?

I'm used to living big cities (New York, Los Angeles, etc.) so I'm not a babe in the woods when it comes to really urban places but I'm also a smallish, skinny white dude...so personal safety isn't something I play around with...

Yes it is....without hesitation. If you live near campus, you will be fine. There is a police station at 22 and Wells. Marquette does an excellent job with Public Safety, vans will take you anywhere you need to go on and near campus. Also, Marquette provides safety walking escorts upon request, which are two in a group. There is a public safety center in the middle of campus.

You aren't a babe in the woods, so you will do fine. The campus is very nice, compact and small but nice and the area surrounding it has a lot of Marquette students, undergrad, grad and professional living in apts, houses, etc...talk to the people at school, they are very helpful. Talk to students as well.

You may see panhandlers at times like other urban city areas, or homeless people. There is a homeless shelter nearby, it is very well run.

I'd tell ya right away if safety was an issue. Just ask around at the school and you'll be reassured.

Obviously you want to be intelligent about boundaries and where you are, etc...especially late at night....and so forth...as long as you remotely have any common sense, you will not have a problem. Don't be trashed and wonder far away in a back alley alone at 3AM....good tip....etc...most crime near campus are car break ins, petty crime....

The issue with living at or near Marquette is lack of non Marquette social options,(besides some bars) or living in aesthetically nice part of town....not safety. There are high crime areas NW of Marquette. Marquette has 12000 or so students and most of them live on campus or in surrounding areas near campus.

Everyone hear will tell you that the lower Eastside has parks, Lake Michigan, ecclectic people, vibrant, etc...and since you are not in undergrad, those areas are more appealing to someone in your situation. You can either live in those areas and commute to Marquette or live at Marquette and live in those areas. Take a bus or short 5-10 minute side street drive to the other choices.(too far to walk) If you are going to study, study and study some more, I would not rule out simply living at Marquette and near where you need to be and study. Plenty of your classmates will as well. There will likely be a mix.

[Badger]

Milwaukee's economy is in the tank, it's behind only Detroit for major metro areas in unemployment rate. There is alot of racial tension in Milw. as well. Flame away, but there's no denying it. The economy may be stable but it's a bad stable. I don't care how many Fortune 500's there are in Milw. , it doesn't seem to be helping th economy in Milw. at all, there are plenty of cities with less 500's and their economy is doing great.

the top county exec in Milw. county, Scott Walker, is a big-time republican dead set against many progressive ideas like light-rail. I have serious doubts if it will ever get built in Milw. which is a shame considering the whole corridor between Milw. kenosha, racine and chicago.

The geography is better in Milw. if you want to visit Madison or Chicago, however if you're flying out of the city then MLPS will be much better. It's the home and hub of Northwest which now essentially owns Midwest airlines. Midwest is losing many direct flights, in the future most will go thru MLPS. They're rumoured to be 45 days away from having no capitol at all. they just cut about 600 jobs and asked their captains to take a major paycut.

I don't care what anyone says , the gay scene is much, much better and friendly in MPLS. The entire state of MN is far more socially liberal, in WI it's mostly just MIlw. and Madison with the rural areas and the fox valley (Green Bay to Fond du Lac) being far more conservative then you'd expect in "progressive" WI.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Badger

Milwaukee's economy is in the tank, it's behind only Detroit for major metro areas in unemployment rate.

According to the US Dept. of Labor Bureau of Statistics (Metropolitan Area Employment and Unemployment Summary), the five largest (population 1,000,000+) metro areas with the worst unemployment rates are Detroit, Riverside (CA), Cleveland, Sacramento, and Providence.

Milwaukee's economic growth is in the single digits, which is low, but not really "in the tank."

There is alot of racial tension in Milw. as well. Flame away, but there's no denying it.

Yes, the racial tension is pretty high, and the city's racial demographic has much to do with this: 37% Black, 12% Hispanic, 45% White Non-Hispanic. Mpls and Madison are far less racially diverse, and that has in effect made the two cities much less racially divided. Though the Milwaukee metro is said to be quite segregated in terms of where people reside, the racial diversity does have a good consequence: it's not unusual to see people of different races and ethnicities interacting in businesses, retail areas, etc. in many parts of the city and some suburbs (not all, though).

So, there is good and bad. Lots of racial tension, but lots of possibility to integrate races as well. I suppose if a non-Hispanic white person wants to avoid race issues (good and bad) altogether, s/he can live and travel in select parts of Milwaukee city and suburbs and rarely come into contact with other kinds of people. This would be tough to do in the Marquette area, though, but even there--in spite of the petty crime and occasional other problems--most of the blacks and whites around campus seem to coexist quite well. I guess it depends on your comfort level, and what you're willing to be exposed to.

The economy may be stable but it's a bad stable.

I thought you said it's "in the tank"?

In fact, some industries in Milw., such as manufacturing, are really struggling, while other industries, such as financial services and insurance, are doing okay. As far as I know, legal services are doing just fine in Milwaukee.

I don't care how many Fortune 500's there are in Milw. , it doesn't seem to be helping th economy in Milw. at all, there are plenty of cities with less 500's and their economy is doing great.

Actually, the Fortune 500 companies and other companies in Milwaukee have helped ensure that the city has not in fact become another Detroit. Milwaukee's economy is not as diverse and resilient as Seattle's, but it is generally diverse and resilient (for a Midwestern/Great Lakes city). Many lawyers and other legal sorts do just fine in Milwaukee.

I don't care what anyone says , the gay scene is much, much better and friendly in MPLS.

I agree, though it's not like the LGBT scene in Milwaukee is moribund. It's the most active and developed LGBT scene in the state of Wisconsin, and it's probably sufficient for most people, including bisexual law students at Marquette.

[#Littledog]

Originally Posted by Badger

Milwaukee's economy is in the tank, it's behind only Detroit for major metro areas in unemployment rate. There is alot of racial tension in Milw. as well. Flame away, but there's no denying it. The economy may be stable but it's a bad stable. I don't care how many Fortune 500's there are in Milw. , it doesn't seem to be helping th economy in Milw. at all, there are plenty of cities with less 500's and their economy is doing great.

the top county exec in Milw. county, Scott Walker, is a big-time republican dead set against many progressive ideas like light-rail. I have serious doubts if it will ever get built in Milw. which is a shame considering the whole corridor between Milw. kenosha, racine and chicago.

The geography is better in Milw. if you want to visit Madison or Chicago, however if you're flying out of the city then MLPS will be much better. It's the home and hub of Northwest which now essentially owns Midwest airlines. Midwest is losing many direct flights, in the future most will go thru MLPS. They're rumoured to be 45 days away from having no capitol at all. they just cut about 600 jobs and asked their captains to take a major paycut.

I don't care what anyone says , the gay scene is much, much better and friendly in MPLS. The entire state of MN is far more socially liberal, in WI it's mostly just MIlw. and Madison with the rural areas and the fox valley (Green Bay to Fond du Lac) being far more conservative then you'd expect in "progressive" WI.

Milwaukee has some problems but for a guy looking to go to law school, I think he will be very happy in Milwaukee. And not all gay people are liberal. One of my gay friends is very conservative-socially and politically.

[Badger]

we can have a ****-ing match about how bad the economy is in Milw. but there's no doubt which city has the better economy and that's MPLS by a long shot. To argue that is silly.

Lots of possibility to integrate the races in Milw? that hasn't happened ever and never will.

Milw. is still a blue collar, manufacturing city that hasn't done nearly enough to change it's economy away from that. That's not forward thinking or progressive like the reputation of the city. Milwaukee is still stuck in a 1950's mentality. Pittsburgh is not a steel city anymore, check out it's medical centers. Look at the classified ads in Milwaukee , there's still lots of factory, machining, tool and die ads in a much greater percentage of total ads. Go to Denver, a city that's booming with light rail plans and you don't see that at all. They understand that manufacturing is mostly a dead-end street in today's economy.

The only reason the gay community is the most "developed" one in the state is because it's the biggest city in the state, ----that's the only reason bar none. Sorry, but the gay community is bigger and better in MPLS any way you slice it.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Badger

we can have a ****-ing match about how bad the economy is in Milw. but there's no doubt which city has the better economy and that's MPLS by a long shot. To argue that is silly.

I don't think a ****-ing match is necessary. How about a civil discussion instead?

I never did dispute that Minneapolis's economy is doing better than Milwaukee's. I did, however, dispute (with proof) your false claim that Milwaukee is second to Detroit.

Clearly, Milwaukee's economy is struggling, and will probably to do so in the future, particularly if the nation's economy continues to struggle. In the meantime, many people in Milwaukee will continue to do okay (or better) even as others in the city meet hard times. The same will happen in the U.S. in general.

Lots of possibility to integrate the races in Milw? that hasn't happened ever and never will.

In order to integrate races, you need to have a significant presence of two or more races around to integrate. As I said, Milwaukee has the opportunity to succeed in this regard, because it has the racial diversity to begin with. But will it happen? Maybe not. There are too many pessimistic people around who don't care to help solve problems.

Milw. is still a blue collar, manufacturing city that hasn't done nearly enough to change it's economy away from that. That's not forward thinking or progressive like the reputation of the city. Milwaukee is still stuck in a 1950's mentality.

This is true for much of Milwaukee, but certainly not all of it. However, if you choose to embrace stereotyped generalities, that's your prerogative. I and thousands of others experience a somewhat different Milwaukee on a daily basis, thank you.

Pittsburgh is not a steel city anymore, check out it's medical centers. Look at the classified ads in Milwaukee , there's still lots of factory, machining, tool and die ads in a much greater percentage of total ads. Go to Denver, a city that's booming with light rail plans and you don't see that at all. They understand that manufacturing is mostly a dead-end street in today's economy.

Many people in Milwaukee also realize that manufacturing industries need to give way to the "New Economy." In fact, Milwaukee's leaders have been talking about this for years. Some of the leaders have been trying to do something about it, too, but change is slow, if it's possible.

By the way, though Denver's economy is doing okay, Pittsburgh's economy isn't so great right now. I wonder why?

The only reason the gay community is the most "developed" one in the state is because it's the biggest city in the state, ----that's the only reason bar none. Sorry, but the gay community is bigger and better in MPLS any way you slice it.

Did I state otherwise? Um.....no. Sorry, but your hatred of Milwaukee is quite transparent, and I can't believe you're a credible source of information about it.

[radraja]

Milwaukee does have a pretty rough job market right now, and the local economy is struggling....

Love for the city is a great thing to see, but we should also be able to point out the city's faults - I don't think Badger is trying to rip on MKE, I think he's just trying to point out the negatives that some people have overlooked. It's important to highlight the positives AND negatives of a place. People shouldn't get so offended by negative feedback or negative experiences...negative posts are vital to the decision-making process. Nothing but sugar-coated positive responses isn't exactly helpful. I always try to point out negatives for that very reason.

Anyway, the local economy is definitely one of the negatives of MKE. It may not be the number two city for unemployment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the top 10. Getting a job in MKE is hard, especially if you don't have the right connections. This point is hit home on the other thread ("can't find a job"). MKE also has one of the highest poverty rates in the nation. There's no avoiding that fact.

I also agree that segregation is pretty strong in the city. My sister works for the local police force and sees it all the time. Blacks live in one neighborhood. Hispanics live in another. The two groups don't get along at all. Whites tend to live separately from minorities all-together. People aren't necessarily racist, but they are very used to living with people who look like them.

The city has plenty of positives, but there's no need to pretend that the city doesn't have downsides.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by radraja

Milwaukee does have a pretty rough job market right now, and the local economy is struggling....

Love for the city is a great thing to see, but we should also be able to point out the city's faults - I don't think Badger is trying to rip on MKE, I think he's just trying to point out the negatives that some people have overlooked. It's important to highlight the positives AND negatives of a place. People shouldn't get so offended by negative feedback or negative experiences...negative posts are vital to the decision-making process. Nothing but sugar-coated positive responses isn't exactly helpful. I always try to point out negatives for that very reason.

I'm not against negative comments about Milwaukee, and I've made a few myself, but the only truly positive thing Badger has said about it is that it's located near Madison and Chicago.

If I took his comments at face value, I would think that people are leaving the area in droves, and that Hoovervilles have sprung up everywhere. It doesn't really bother me that he adores Minneapolis and Madison, and intensely dislikes Milwaukee, but this has altered his ability to even try to be somewhat objective. Gosh, even the state's largest LGBT community is merely a function of Milwaukee's size, not the talent or inclinations of its people.

Anyway, the local economy is definitely one of the negatives of MKE. It may not be the number two city for unemployment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the top 10. Getting a job in MKE is hard, especially if you don't have the right connections.

Yes, MKE's economy is not robust. According to the BLS cited above, the metro falls in the bottom quartile of the largest 49 metros. Milwaukee fares better than most other major midwestern metros (Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, etc.) but is out of the reach of Chicago, Minneapolis, and others.

To provide a different frame of reference, though: Of all 300+ metro areas, Milwaukee ranks at the lower part of the middle tier. Many medium and small metro areas have unemployment rates at 7% or above (many over 10%). Milwaukee's rate is a little over 5% (edit: halfway between 4% and 5%)--not great, but lower than the 10% found in places hardest hit by the mortgage and credit crises.

This point is hit home on the other thread ("can't find a job"). MKE also has one of the highest poverty rates in the nation. There's no avoiding that fact.

Very true, and the poverty rate for Blacks is particularly acute. For those who happen to be White non-Hispanic, the poverty rate is not so high. The economic segregration is tied to the racial divide.

I also agree that segregation is pretty strong in the city. My sister works for the local police force and sees it all the time. Blacks live in one neighborhood. Hispanics live in another. The two groups don't get along at all. Whites tend to live separately from minorities all-together. People aren't necessarily racist, but they are very used to living with people who look like them.

All very true, though there are some areas where blacks and whites live side by side. And as I said, there is quite a bit of racial integration in retail/commerce circles.

The city has plenty of positives, but there's no need to pretend that the city doesn't have downsides.

Very true.

An edit: According to the BLS site (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.t01.htm), the unemployment rate for MKE in May is estimated at 4.4%; for Minneapolis it was 4.7. It still seems to me, though, that the foundation of the MPLS economy is a lot stronger, but I don't think MKE will totally crumble apart any time soon.

[TheManWithoutQualities]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

Yes it is....without hesitation. If you live near campus, you will be fine. There is a police station at 22 and Wells. Marquette does an excellent job with Public Safety, vans will take you anywhere you need to go on and near campus. Also, Marquette provides safety walking escorts upon request, which are two in a group. There is a public safety center in the middle of campus.

You aren't a babe in the woods, so you will do fine. The campus is very nice, compact and small but nice and the area surrounding it has a lot of Marquette students, undergrad, grad and professional living in apts, houses, etc...talk to the people at school, they are very helpful. Talk to students as well.

You may see panhandlers at times like other urban city areas, or homeless people. There is a homeless shelter nearby, it is very well run.



I'd tell ya right away if safety was an issue. Just ask around at the school and you'll be reassured.

Obviously you want to be intelligent about boundaries and where you are, etc...especially late at night....and so forth...as long as you remotely have any common sense, you will not have a problem. Don't be trashed and wonder far away in a back alley alone at 3AM....good tip....etc...most crime near campus are car break ins, petty crime....

The issue with living at or near Marquette is lack of non Marquette social options,(besides some bars) or living in aesthetically nice part of town....not safety. There are high crime areas NW of Marquette. Marquette has 12000 or so students and most of them live on campus or in surrounding areas near campus.

Everyone hear will tell you that the lower Eastside has parks, Lake Michigan, ecclectic people, vibrant, etc...and since you are not in undergrad, those areas are more appealing to someone in your situation. You can either live in those areas and commute to Marquette or live at Marquette and live in those areas. Take a bus or short 5-10 minute side street drive to the other choices.(too far to walk) If you are going to study, study and study some more, I would not rule out simply living at Marquette and near where you need to be and study. Plenty of your classmates will as well. There will likely be a mix.

Thanks for this. I'll be almost 29 when I start so while I want proximity to the campus (especially the law library) - it's not quite essential that I live in Marquette's neighborhood - I just need to be in close proximity.

I take it that the lower Eastside (weather permitting) is a good walking area?

[TheManWithoutQualities]

Originally Posted by Badger

we can have a ****-ing match about how bad the economy is in Milw. but there's no doubt which city has the better economy and that's MPLS by a long shot. To argue that is silly.

Lots of possibility to integrate the races in Milw? that hasn't happened ever and never will.

Milw. is still a blue collar, manufacturing city that hasn't done nearly enough to change it's economy away from that. That's not forward thinking or progressive like the reputation of the city. Milwaukee is still stuck in a 1950's mentality. Pittsburgh is not a steel city anymore, check out it's medical centers. Look at the classified ads in Milwaukee , there's still lots of factory, machining, tool and die ads in a much greater percentage of total ads. Go to Denver, a city that's booming with light rail plans and you don't see that at all. They understand that manufacturing is mostly a dead-end street in today's economy.

The only reason the gay community is the most "developed" one in the state is because it's the biggest city in the state, ----that's the only reason bar none. Sorry, but the gay community is bigger and better in MPLS any way you slice it.

Surely, there is some professional class, even if the city's demographics are decisively manufacturing-oriented and blue collar?

What's the quality of like like for these people?