Milwaukee vs. Minneapolis (Madison, Wells, Marquette: employment, schools, colleges)

[TheManWithoutQualities]

That was supposed to read "quality of life"...

[Milwaukee Ronnie]

Originally Posted by TheManWithoutQualities

Surely, there is some professional class, even if the city's demographics are decisively manufacturing-oriented and blue collar?

What's the quality of life like for these people?

One thing you will notice if you move to this region is that Milwaukee is often dumped on by those residing in Madison, Chicago and Minneapolis. The city is looked at as the ugly stepsister that never got it together. It's protrayed as a washed up factory town with the worst race relations in the country, and full of an ignorant, low class population. Is there a kernal of truth in this negative image of Milwaukee? Somewhat. But it was a lot more true 25 years ago than it is today. But I guess if it gives some people a sense of self esteem to go on an anonymous internet posting board and thrash a city that is deemed "inferior" to their own, then so be it. But take it with a grain of salt.

I find it very interesting that when one simply defends Milwaukee by pointing out that it's not all negative, they're accused of "sugar coating" the reality. I also find it quite interesting that those who point their fingers at Milwaukee for having poor race relations live in places that are hardly the paragon of ethnic diversity or inclusiveness. After all, Minneapolis has the lowest Black graduation rate in the United States. Madison/Dane County has the widest disparity in the US between Blacks and Whites in terms of arrests for drug offenses. But in both of these places, these unfortunate facts are easily ignored because there simply are not that many African Americans around. Milwaukee, on the other hand, is a majority-minority city. In Milwaukee, we cannot sweep our problems under the rug, because "minority" problems, by definition, are Milwaukee problems.

Is Milwaukee more segregated than other cities? I don't think so. Is the Milwaukee metro area more segregated than other metro areas? I think so. The fact of the matter is the city of Milwaukee is relatively diverse, while the suburbs are overwhemlingly, incredibly, profoundly white. We are a divided metro area, but contrary to the opinion of those who a. have never stepped foot in Milwaukee in 20 years or b. have only ventured into the city to go to a baseball game or festival, there are places where people of many races live alongside each other. Like my neighborhood, Sherman Park. Or Riverwest. Or Brewers Hill. Should there be more? Yes. But how many truly ethnically diverse neighborhoods can you show me in, say, New York? Take the express A train from Central Park West to Harlem, or take a stroll from Park Slope to Bed-Stuy and tell me NYC is not a racially segregated city.

Milwaukee is not Minneapolis. Milwaukee is dichotomous. It has a split personality. It's both seedy corner tavern and upscale club. It's a place where small tool and die operations exist alongside Fortune 500 firms specializing in robotics and medical software, a place where the research and development for the next generation of auto technology is happening alongside the production of Harley Davidsons and Miller Beer. It's blue collar and white collar, and two classes rarely intersect.

[TheManWithoutQualities]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee Ronnie

One thing you will notice if you move to this region is that Milwaukee is often dumped on by those residing in Madison, Chicago and Minneapolis. The city is looked at as the ugly stepsister that never got it together. It's protrayed as a washed up factory town with the worst race relations in the country, and full of an ignorant, low class population. Is there a kernal of truth in this negative image of Milwaukee? Somewhat. But it was a lot more true 25 years ago than it is today. But I guess if it gives some people a sense of self esteem to go on an anonymous internet posting board and thrash a city that is deemed "inferior" to their own, then so be it. But take it with a grain of salt.

I find it very interesting that when one simply defends Milwaukee by pointing out that it's not all negative, they're accused of "sugar coating" the reality. I also find it quite interesting that those who point their fingers at Milwaukee for having poor race relations live in places that are hardly the paragon of ethnic diversity or inclusiveness. After all, Minneapolis has the lowest Black graduation rate in the United States. Madison/Dane County has the widest disparity in the US between Blacks and Whites in terms of arrests for drug offenses. But in both of these places, these unfortunate facts are easily ignored because there simply are not that many African Americans around. Milwaukee, on the other hand, is a majority-minority city. In Milwaukee, we cannot sweep our problems under the rug, because "minority" problems, by definition, are Milwaukee problems.

Is Milwaukee more segregated than other cities? I don't think so. Is the Milwaukee metro area more segregated than other metro areas? I think so. The fact of the matter is the city of Milwaukee is relatively diverse, while the suburbs are overwhemlingly, incredibly, profoundly white. We are a divided metro area, but contrary to the opinion of those who a. have never stepped foot in Milwaukee in 20 years or b. have only ventured into the city to go to a baseball game or festival, there are places where people of many races live alongside each other. Like my neighborhood, Sherman Park. Or Riverwest. Or Brewers Hill. Should there be more? Yes. But how many truly ethnically diverse neighborhoods can you show me in, say, New York? Take the express A train from Central Park West to Harlem, or take a stroll from Park Slope to Bed-Stuy and tell me NYC is not a racially segregated city.

Milwaukee is not Minneapolis. Milwaukee is dichotomous. It has a split personality. It's both seedy corner tavern and upscale club. It's a place where small tool and die operations exist alongside Fortune 500 firms specializing in robotics and medical software, a place where the research and development for the next generation of auto technology is happening alongside the production of Harley Davidsons and Miller Beer. It's blue collar and white collar, and two classes rarely intersect.

Ronnie,

Thanks for this thoughtful response. I agree with your general sentiments.

This is very helpful.

[Badger]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee Ronnie

One thing you will notice if you move to this region is that Milwaukee is often dumped on by those residing in Madison, Chicago and Minneapolis. The city is looked at as the ugly stepsister that never got it together. It's protrayed as a washed up factory town with the worst race relations in the country, and full of an ignorant, low class population. Is there a kernal of truth in this negative image of Milwaukee? Somewhat. But it was a lot more true 25 years ago than it is today. But I guess if it gives some people a sense of self esteem to go on an anonymous internet posting board and thrash a city that is deemed "inferior" to their own, then so be it. But take it with a grain of salt.

I find it very interesting that when one simply defends Milwaukee by pointing out that it's not all negative, they're accused of "sugar coating" the reality. I also find it quite interesting that those who point their fingers at Milwaukee for having poor race relations live in places that are hardly the paragon of ethnic diversity or inclusiveness. After all, Minneapolis has the lowest Black graduation rate in the United States. Madison/Dane County has the widest disparity in the US between Blacks and Whites in terms of arrests for drug offenses. But in both of these places, these unfortunate facts are easily ignored because there simply are not that many African Americans around. Milwaukee, on the other hand, is a majority-minority city. In Milwaukee, we cannot sweep our problems under the rug, because "minority" problems, by definition, are Milwaukee problems.

Is Milwaukee more segregated than other cities? I don't think so. Is the Milwaukee metro area more segregated than other metro areas? I think so. The fact of the matter is the city of Milwaukee is relatively diverse, while the suburbs are overwhemlingly, incredibly, profoundly white. We are a divided metro area, but contrary to the opinion of those who a. have never stepped foot in Milwaukee in 20 years or b. have only ventured into the city to go to a baseball game or festival, there are places where people of many races live alongside each other. Like my neighborhood, Sherman Park. Or Riverwest. Or Brewers Hill. Should there be more? Yes. But how many truly ethnically diverse neighborhoods can you show me in, say, New York? Take the express A train from Central Park West to Harlem, or take a stroll from Park Slope to Bed-Stuy and tell me NYC is not a racially segregated city.

Milwaukee is not Minneapolis. Milwaukee is dichotomous. It has a split personality. It's both seedy corner tavern and upscale club. It's a place where small tool and die operations exist alongside Fortune 500 firms specializing in robotics and medical software, a place where the research and development for the next generation of auto technology is happening alongside the production of Harley Davidsons and Miller Beer. It's blue collar and white collar, and two classes rarely intersect.

I reside on the north side of Milwaukee, not Chi, MPLS, or Madison. MKE's economy is still largely based on factory, tool and die and other manufacturing industries. Has it changed? yes, but not as much as other cities and that's the lagging behind you see. Oh course there are office jobs, no city of 600K doesn't have them but compare to MPLS or Denver or Tampa and you'll see there are many more jobs of the future in those cities. Milwaukee has been left behind on Today's Economy. No doubt about it.


You talk about black grad rates in MPLS but what about black teen pregnacy in MKE?

JS Online: No. 1 in birth rate for black teens

and poverty in MKE? 8th highest rate overall. 1/3 of blacks in MKE live in poverty
JS Online: South side lifts itself, a bit, out of poverty


Teen pregnacy hurts MKE business
Teen pregnancy epidemic hurts Milwaukee businesses - The Business Journal of Milwaukee:


Whether somebody lives in an all white neighborhood or all black or all hispanic it's plain as day that it's a segregated city with poor race relations. This is a national view so get over it, why can't you just admit the truth?

Harley Davidson? is that the same Harley Davidson that just cut 700 plus jobs?

Harley-Davidson announces job cuts and idle plants - BloggingStocks

Miller Brewing? is that the same Miller brewing that just got bought by Coors and is rumoured to move it's hdqtrs to CO?

STLtoday - Brewers flowing away from the 'Beer Capital of the World'

and the "hometown" airline, Midwest , which is now essentially owned by MPLS's own Northwest is cancelling flights, selling planes and re-directing flights thru Kansas City (their true hub) and MPLS already? and are asking their employees to take a 65% pay cut.

Midwest To Ask Pilots, Flight Attendants To Take Cuts | Today's TMJ4 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Weather, Sports, WTMJ | Local News

midwest airlines || Jaunted

and I'm glad MKE's unemplyment rate is not as bad as it once was but just last October it WAS the SECOND WORST umemployment rate in the entire NATION, trailing only Detroit just like I said before. keep denying.

Milwaukee Has Nation's Second-Worst Unemployment Rate, Study Shows - Milwaukee News Story - WISN Milwaukee


MKE may have a split personality but it's not 50/50, it's more like 80/20 with the future being the 20. The sooner the city leadership realises this the better it will get, going on past preformance I'm not holding my breath.

I guess it gives some others a sense of self esteem to bash others for simply pointing out the truth about their city as it relates to others in the Midwest and beyond.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by Badger

we can have a ****-ing match about how bad the economy is in Milw. but there's no doubt which city has the better economy and that's MPLS by a long shot. To argue that is silly.

Lots of possibility to integrate the races in Milw? that hasn't happened ever and never will.

Milw. is still a blue collar, manufacturing city that hasn't done nearly enough to change it's economy away from that. That's not forward thinking or progressive like the reputation of the city. Milwaukee is still stuck in a 1950's mentality. Pittsburgh is not a steel city anymore, check out it's medical centers. Look at the classified ads in Milwaukee , there's still lots of factory, machining, tool and die ads in a much greater percentage of total ads. Go to Denver, a city that's booming with light rail plans and you don't see that at all. They understand that manufacturing is mostly a dead-end street in today's economy.

The only reason the gay community is the most "developed" one in the state is because it's the biggest city in the state, ----that's the only reason bar none. Sorry, but the gay community is bigger and better in MPLS any way you slice it.

Coming from someone who has spent a lot of time in the Twin Cities, and enjoys it there, I wouldn't exactly call it a greatly integrated place or anywhere near that.

[#Littledog]

To answer your question, OP, yes, people have a great quality of life in Milwaukee. Depending on your interests, we have fantastic restaurants, a world famous art museum, theater, ballet, symphony, a fun bar scene, and festivals by the lake all summer long. There are endless walking and biking trails, beautiful state and private campgrounds, the riverwalk in downtown Milwaukee, and miles and miles of shoreline. Oh, and you have to check out Schlitz's Auduboun Center.The winters can be a real drag but the weather's no better than Minneapolis. As far as diversity, since you will be a Marquette student (if that's your decision) Marquette has the most scholarships for minority students than any other university in the state. MU also won an award for the best volunteer programs for students to participate. You can deliver sandwiches to the homeless under the viaducts through "Midnight Run", volunteer at a soup kitchen, or help babysit at a women's shelter, among many other opportunites. The blue collar beginnings for Milwaukee keeps things fun-despite some very wealthy people in Milwaukee, no one gets too uppity because at it's heart, Milwaukee's all about working hard and playing hard. Go for a ride on your Harley, have a BBQ in your backyard, enjoy a cold beer, go to the state fair and have a cream puff. It's all pretty fun. When you need something different to do, take the train to Chicago or drive to Madison.


I'm sorry that there are disgruntled people here. I really hope their life gets better or they find a place that makes them happier.

[Badger]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

Coming from someone who has spent a lot of time in the Twin Cities, and enjoys it there, I wouldn't exactly call it a greatly integrated place or anywhere near that.

where did I call the TC an integrated place? In fact, everybody on here has stated how much more white they are in comparison to MKE, making that a subtle jab at them. I'm sure they're not anymore integrated than MKE is but so what? the fact is most major cities,for all the PC talk, aren't that integrated. neither city wins in that regard, although I could argue that if MKE is more diverse, and has been for a long time, why haven't they learned to live in peace and integration after all this time? If they haven't done it yet, what makes you think they will learn in the future?



thanks Fishtacos, but I'm not getting it.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Badger

You talk about black grad rates in MPLS but what about black teen pregnacy in MKE?
....
and poverty in MKE? 8th highest rate overall. 1/3 of blacks in MKE live in poverty
....
Teen pregnacy hurts MKE business
....

Do you have any stats on black teen bisexual Marquette law students who live in poverty? That would really boost your point, y'know.

Whether somebody lives in an all white neighborhood or all black or all hispanic it's plain as day that it's a segregated city with poor race relations. This is a national view so get over it, why can't you just admit the truth?

Well, that does it. I'm moving back to Alabama. It's clear that as long as segregation and poor race relations persist in Milwaukee, I simply shouldn't be living here.

Harley Davidson? is that the same Harley Davidson that just cut 700 plus jobs?

Those people weren't laid off; they decided to go work for Bear Stearns in NYC, and for various mortgage firms in California. Too bad they didn't realize that people never get laid off in Minneapolis.

Miller Brewing? is that the same Miller brewing that just got bought by Coors and is rumoured to move it's hdqtrs to CO?

On a serious note, the rumor now is that the HQ for MillerCoors will be established in another city, such as Dallas or Chicago. It's clear that MKE's loss of the HQ is a sign of weakness, whereas Denver's loss of the Coors HQ is only a sign of strength (because it's Denver and therefore better).

and the "hometown" airline, Midwest , which is now essentially owned by MPLS's own Northwest is cancelling flights, selling planes and re-directing flights thru Kansas City (their true hub) and MPLS already? and are asking their employees to take a 65% pay cut.

You're right, this is a stinging indictment of Milwaukee. All of the other airlines are doing really well these days.

and I'm glad MKE's unemplyment rate is not as bad as it once was but just last October it WAS the SECOND WORST umemployment rate in the entire NATION, trailing only Detroit just like I said before. keep denying.

Wow, the stats you drag out are no match for those compiled by the U.S. Government. I can't believe how stupid I was for believing the data provided by the federal Department of Labor!

By the way, I surmise that the article refers exclusively to residents of the city itself, not the entire metro. In addition, the study counted people who were already working but were looking for another job: "According to a study out of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, eight percent of Milwaukee residents either working, or looking for work, said they couldn't find a job in August."

It seems odd to me that people "working" and not just those "looking for work" would be called unemployed.

Also by the way, the article says that the data refer to August 2007; October is the month in which the report was released and publicized.

Yes, I know--I'm a "denier" because I actually read the article.

I guess it gives some others a sense of self esteem to bash others for simply pointing out the truth about their city as it relates to others in the Midwest and beyond.

<Mod cut: off topic / personal / baiting>

I suppose the lesson is: if you're a Marquette Law student, beware of Northwest Milwaukee.

[karfar]

My 2 cents...I think it's great that Midwest's CEO has taken a paycut, shows integrity instead of selling to the highest bidder, namely AirTran which didn't happen thankfully. Everytime I go on this forum here people are bitching about this state & Milwaukee. Why the heck are you negative people even here? God, talk about giving a bad impression to people asking about us.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Badger

where did I call the TC an integrated place? In fact, everybody on here has stated how much more white they are in comparison to MKE, making that a subtle jab at them. I'm sure they're not anymore integrated than MKE is but so what? the fact is most major cities,for all the PC talk, aren't that integrated. neither city wins in that regard....

Although, in a previous post, you suggested that this is something that a prospective Marquette Law student and possibly future resident of MKE ought to consider.... Funny that you didn't dispense the same advice with regard to MPLS. But I suppose segregation and bad race relations are more acceptable in a city that is seen as more upscale, more prosperous, and more "New Economy"? Sounds like a double standard on your part.

.... I could argue that if MKE is more diverse, and has been for a long time, why haven't they learned to live in peace and integration after all this time?....

When Persia/Iran (which has been around for thousands of years) figures it out, then maybe Milwaukee (which has only existed as a city for less than 200 years) will figure it out, too. In the meantime, we can all move to MPLS and enjoy our nicer, shinier lifestyles (except for those there who live in poverty, etc., of course).