Racial Tensions in Milwaukee? (Waukesha, Brookfield: violent crime, how much, job market)

[south-to-west]

I haven't lived in Milwaukee in a dozen years, but I thought I'd stop by to see what others are saying about my hometown.

The Black Pages have nothing to do with racial tensions. It's no different than a Spanish-language periodical advertising Latino businesses. In the city where I currently live, the Brazilian immigrant community has the Brazil Pages which is the same thing. It provides people an opportunity to network and offers people of color the opportunity to advertise. If you want to create a White Pages, go ahead. It doesn't make sense really since many communities in Milwaukee have historically had their own publications like the Germans and Italians.

I think everyone on this board has touched on the various reasons for racial tension--self segregation, discrimination, stereotyping, etc. Being black and raised in suburban Mequon myself, I've seen this first hand. I would also add the bad economy and the provincial nature of Milwaukee as contributing factors also. Communities fall apart at every seem when jobs are lost, which has been a continuing pattern in Milwaukee over the past couple of decades--especially manufacturing. The provincial nature of Milwaukee results from the fact that relatively few people from other regions of the country and world move to Milwaukee, thus creating a stagnant atmosphere due to a lack of fresh new ideas and attitudes.

Things are getting better, but I don't believe that needed change is occurring quickly enough.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by illwauk

And one more thing I forgot to mention... theres a little case involving a Frank Jude Jr. that you may have heard of.

There was also that little case recently of the white MATC 20-year old student riding the city bus through Wauwatosa to downtown MKE when he got jumped and beaten up pretty badly by a gang of African American teenagers. And unlike the Jude case that was hyped to high heavens in the media, the bus story received virtually no coverage.

Also that story about the African American kid who decided it was a good idea to physically scuffle with a police officer at Mayfair Mall recently, and in the process dropped a handgun he was illegally carrying over the 2nd floor of the mall to the first. Thank God a huge tragedy didn't occur. Didn't hear much in the media about that one either.

There was the medical van driver recently who was killed in gunfire - wrong place, wrong time for him - between young African Americans on 39th and Center. That received some more media attention, but not nearly as much as Jude's case.

There was the white, UWM student who was a delivery person for Jimmy John's who made a delivery of food in an area you have previously claimed white people are scared to venture into, and was accosted and brutally gunned down and killed in cold blood - likely for robbery's sake - recently. Got a bit of hype for a day or two, and was then forgotten about.

The list, sadly, can go on and on. Look, is there white v. black racism in the Milwaukee area? Of course there is...there is racism anywhere in the country and world - yes world - where more than one race try to co-exist together in similar living vicinities. However, to act as though the white community is the cause of the majority of the problems, or to act as though white folks have no reason to be somewhat apprehensive about going into these extremely high-crime areas, is just ignoring the reality of what happens each and every day. For every Jude case, you have many more of these types cited.

[mdkkr]

Having such views would seem very segregationist to the rest of the country, but if that's the way people of Milwaukee like it, than to each his own.

One thing is certain: No matter what goes on, you can't legislate a man's thoughts.

(We'd probably all get along better if we lived by that creed.)

Like anywhere, white guys beating up a black guy unfortunately makes a better story and sells more papers since it may be the less frequent situation. It does go both ways, and most of the street violence may be more economically motivated than racially, though that might be tough to tell that to the family of the pizza guy and the others.

[illwauk]

Your assertion that it was the "agressors" Blackness which caused thses incidents to happen is EXACTLY why there's racial tension in Metro Milwaukee. Personally, I see it as poor people who have been (explitive)ed over by the system acting out and unfortunatley affecting innocent lives (except for the cop... they have their reputation for a reason).

Also, do people USUALLY get attacked on the bus? NO
Do delivery drivers USUALLY get robbed? NO
Do fights USUALLY happen at Mayfair? NO

Yet people like yourself are only too happy to pass these incidents off like "business as usual" in order to imply that Blacks are somehow morally depraved and somehow "forced" whites into the suburbs.

You also ignore the fact that there were many, MANY factors that made the Frank Jude case worthy of the press it got.

-The officers were OBVIOUSLY guilty (would the federal courts even waste their time with the case if they weren't?)
-It came out during the trial that Jude was at the party with white women which probably angered the officers.
-And most importantly, an all-white jury was selected in a city that is less than half white.

[illwauk]

Originally Posted by mdkkr

Having such views would seem very segregationist to the rest of the country, but if that's the way people of Milwaukee like it, than to each his own.

One thing is certain: No matter what goes on, you can't legislate a man's thoughts.

(We'd probably all get along better if we lived by that creed.)

Like anywhere, white guys beating up a black guy unfortunately makes a better story and sells more papers since it may be the less frequent situation. It does go both ways, and most of the street violence may be more economically motivated than racially, though that might be tough to tell that to the family of the pizza guy and the others.

Actually, according to census 2000 the people in Milwaukee DON'T like it... it's the suburban communities that are interested in maintaining the status quo. There's a reason why the metro area is the most segregated, yet Milwaukee by itself doesn't even crack the top 10.

Although you are right about one thing... clearly these crimes are economically, rather than racially motivated. But try telling that to the suburbanites who left the city to get away from all the "scary brown people."

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by illwauk

Your assertion that it was the "agressors" Blackness which caused thses incidents to happen is EXACTLY why there's racial tension in Metro Milwaukee.

No, my friend, it is you who made the asserssion that their "blackness" was what caused these incidents, I did not. I simply reported the facts...which all involved black-on-white violence.

Now tell me, if a white guy is found shooting...oh...Asian folks all over town, for WHATEVER THEIR REASON...wouldn't the Asians have a reason to maybe be slightly apprehensive about going into a heavily white community? Sorry...that doesn't mean in this made-up scenario that all whites are the shooters, but comeon...I think the Asians would have every right to be apprehensive...they don't know the good from the bad!...that would NOT make the Asians racist.

Originally Posted by illwauk

Personally, I see it as poor people who have been (explitive)ed over by the system acting out and unfortunatley affecting innocent lives (except for the cop... they have their reputation for a reason).

This quote is unbelievable. First off, in regards to your comments about the cop..."they have their reputation for a reason"...that doesn't exactly bolster your defense of the African American high-crime areas. You just generalized and stereotyped more than anyone you accuse of doing to high crime areas. Guess what, sir, high crime areas "have their reputation for a reason" as well.

Then...you just allow poor people who have been "(explitive)ed over by the system" to act out?? Huh?? Sorry...rich or poor...folks do not have just cause to "act out"...and yes, there are many poor folks of all sorts of ethnic persuations who do not act out in the name of having "gotten (explitive)ed over by the system."

Originally Posted by illwauk

Also, do people USUALLY get attacked on the bus? NO
Do delivery drivers USUALLY get robbed? NO
Do fights USUALLY happen at Mayfair? NO

Well, you are right, except for the Mayfair comment...fights happen there all the time - they have all been documented (although fairly low-covered by the mainstream media). But do the other things USUALLY happen? No, but a) try to tell that to the victims, and b) then you could say in your case of Jude that "that usually doesn't happen" either, so it should be disregarded. However, if, according to you "cops have their reputation for a reason" because of an event like this, then I think the reverse holds true in other aspects.

Originally Posted by illwauk

Yet people like yourself are only too happy to pass these incidents off like "business as usual" in order to imply that Blacks are somehow morally depraved and somehow "forced" whites into the suburbs.

No one forced anyone to move to the suburbs. And to say I implied as such is just simple mis-quoting. Same for your "depraved" comment. However, if whites, Asians, African Americans, Hispanics, etc., wish to move to the suburbs for a quieter, statistically safer, etc., way of life, and do not wish to be around the documented daily crime, why should it bother you? There are many African American good-hearted people I know who live in the suburbs of Milwaukee and are very happy to be there, feeling safer and appreciating their higher home values...are they in the wrong for feeling that way too? Or does that only apply to caucasians?

Originally Posted by illwauk

You also ignore the fact that there were many, MANY factors that made the Frank Jude case worthy of the press it got.

-The officers were OBVIOUSLY guilty (would the federal courts even waste their time with the case if they weren't?)
-It came out during the trial that Jude was at the party with white women which probably angered the officers.
-And most importantly, an all-white jury was selected in a city that is less than half white.

(Sigh...sigh)...

-OK, the officers were obviously guilty, because the federal courts got involved? Man-o-man...I could say OJ was OBVIOUSLY guilty as well, but he is a free man today. Doesn't matter what laypeople like you and I think...the court is where guilt / innocence is determined.
-Your statement about being at the party with white women again is just a stereotyping statement and a guess on your part. You are still stereotyping in a fashion you are so angry at others for what you perceive they are doing.
-Well, the defense team as well as the prosecution has equal pull in jury selection.

Look, you obviously have your mind made up. I am disappointed at how angry, hateful, and resentful you seem to be. Are there poorly behaved white folks in WI and the world? Of course. Just like there are African Americans and all other races.

However, when you stereotype like you do, use vulgarity, and call other people harsh names, you are lending yourself to little credibility in debates.

I will cease to debate this issue now, because it is one that you are just never going to budge on. However, as I said in a previous post, the great thing about WI and any other U.S. state is that if you hate the people, structure, perceived racism, etc., you are free and able to relocate to a more desireable area according to your tastes at any time. I would encourage you to check out a different area - best of luck to you.

[mdkkr]

In a place where OJ gets off, Obama could be President, Tony Dungy wins the Super Bowl, Halle Berry wins an Oscar, Tiger Woods is voted the world's most liked and well-known athlete, Condi Rice is Secretary of State, Colin Powell, etc, etc, etc, ------it's getting harder to cry racism over a lack of advancement and economic depravity.

There will always be places where whites hate blacks and blacks hate whites. Both groups will give you reasonable answers as to why they feel as they do. All the legislation in the world won't change this. So, don't sit on your ass complaining and waiting for the government to write a law changing all this bad, hateful thought and turn all cities into a fairyland - it ain't gonna happen. The challenge is not to get mired in this hateful BS and judge people individually.

Hardwork, perseverance, talent, and personality will lead to great success. Anybody's capable of three of these qualities - if you are a failure, don't blame the world. Look in the mirror and decide what you can improve on. If you want to walk around with the attitude "other guys have it easier than me", then you might as well ride out this bitter string called life and hope you get reincarnated into the next "hand-out" generation, if that ever happens.

Me, I'd like to bust my ass while I'm here and focus on what I can do for myself and family instead of whining about what others have done to, or for me.

Right or wrong - nobody is going to help you but yourself. Once you get that into your head and realize we all have crosses to bear, you are on your way to a successful, fulfilling life.

And one that is less bitter. Good luck!

[south-to-west]

I actually heard all of the stories EnjoyEP mentioned all the way down here in Atlanta, Georgia. I also heard stories of black on black crime that made national news, such as the fatal beating of a man in broad daylight by a gang of teenagers a few years ago.

This tit-for-tat mentality in listing a littany of abuses from different communities is pointless and unproductive. Until Milwaukee's economy progresses and attracts more people from outside, then expect these problems to continue.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by south-to-west

I actually heard all of the stories EnjoyEP mentioned all the way down here in Atlanta, Georgia. I also heard stories of black on black crime that made national news, such as the fatal beating of a man in broad daylight by a gang of teenagers a few years ago.

This tit-for-tat mentality in listing a littany of abuses from different communities is pointless and unproductive.

I respectfully disagree with your comment here, south-to-west. This wasn't "tit-for-tat mentality"...the stories would not have been brought up by myself - no mention would have been made! - if such outrageous allegations hadn't been hurled in the first place. Read through the posts...you will see enormous stereotyping, hateful speak, etc., against a perceived racism that exists simply because many folks feel more comfortable living in the suburbs than in high crime areas of Milwaukee. The incidents were cited by myself to demonstrate to the previous poster that there are many crimes occuring by non-white folks (when he cited one incident that occurred by police officers against an African American - Frank Jude.)...all of the incidents I cited have occurred within the last two or three months as well...they were cited to demonstrate that there is indeed a real problem of violence, and to just foo foo it off as "hey, it is just poor people who got (explitive)'d over by the system - why should the evil caucasians be careful?" is just not productive.

Look, I love Milwaukee as much as anyone. I am a caucasian, however, I have more African American old friends, colleagues, acquaintences that I heartily enjoy and get along with as anyone. I used to play basketball on summer afternoons at Sherman Park - one white kid amongst hundreds of African Americans - and I had a blast.

However, when I see a poster just lamblasting the non-African American / Hispanic populace in the Milwaukee Metro area for wishing to stay in safer (perceived and actual) areas, that is just too far. And the lamblasting - as evidenced in several posts - has occurred quite a bit.

You yourself have mentioned that you used to reside in Mequon. I think that Mequon is a great place!...just like Milwaukee...and truly, metro areas (suburbs included) are what compose a city. Milwaukee couldn't exist without its suburbs and vice/versa. However, according to this previous poster, people in Mequon are living there due to racism largely, and that is just wrong to stereotype or bash people for reasons like that.

So no, this was not tit-for-tat mentality. It was needed factual evidence to offset the off-base, one-sided arguments that were being made.

I care about the Milwaukee area greatly and am considering making it a home again sometime soon. Unlike the original poster's assertations that the race of the violent offenders is what people care about, I heartily disagree...I could care less what race is comitting the violent offenses, I just wish for the excuses to stop and the violence crimes to stop...otherwise regardless of the economy, etc., things will not improve in the area (and no people will be moving into Milwaukee soon, as you suggested would be needed for the area's vitality, as long as this violence occurs - the violence and crime needs to stop first, no more excuses).

[mrkool]

Violent crime on the (mostly black) northside of Milwaukee is even worse than usual right now. Last night was the warmest most pleasant night we've had for a while, and the thugs in that area used it to perpetrate a higher-than-normal number of murders, carjackings, etc.
A city councilman has had enough, and is asking for the deployment of a few dozen National Guard military police to bolster the efforts of Milwaukee Police Dept in getting a handle on this crap.
How sad to think that some years back, the northside was a safe and civil area of well-kept homes and mostly German families. What an embarrassment it has become.